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How does a .223 do out to 400-500 yds?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by hossdaniels, Nov 18, 2008.

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  1. hossdaniels

    hossdaniels Member

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    I'm lookin for a coyote rifle/ tack driver. Need some help chooing the caliber. I'm hoping to make it a 223 for the super cheap ammo. Right now leaning to cz varmint/kevlar stock. Other options are welcome. My experience shooting out to 500 yds has been with larger calibers(30-06 and 270 win).

    How does this caliber behave past 200 yds?

    Why does this rifle come in 1/12 twist rather than 1/7 or 1/9 like the ar's?

    Would a 204 or a 22-250 be much better? I figured the extra cheap ammo will make up the difference in practice, but maybe not?
     
  2. gvnwst

    gvnwst Member

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    Out to 400yd i am sure that the .223 will do whay you want. The .22-250 is longer range, but more expensive. .204 is good too, not sure if it is nessicary.
     
  3. woodfiend

    woodfiend Member

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    Umm. Don't know much about .204 or .22-250. I can answer your question about twist rate though. 1/12 was the original twist rate for the M16 way back in Vietnam. They used .55 grain FMJs, and with that, the round was pretty unstabilized. 1/12 is better suited to bullets lighter than .55 grains if I am not mistaken. The Black Hills Varmint Grenade is an example of this.

    Rounds of that weight would be pretty incapable at longer ranges for coyote. Those rounds are exclusive for prairie dogs or other similar sized animals. Coyote would need a round like .55 grain or above, so I would stick with 1/9 or 1/7. 1/9 is usually not very suited to rounds above 75 grains. 1/7 will handle those heavy rounds. I'm trying not to sound confusing, but some manufacturers offer 1/8 twist barrels, which is a good middle ground between the two, and can stabilized a wider range of bullet weights.
     
  4. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Woodfiend,

    So 55 grain bullets can't be stabalized with a 1x12 twist? I'd like to see some citations.
     
  5. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    1/14 was the original twist
     
  6. woodfiend

    woodfiend Member

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    I didn't say that they can be stabilized, I said that they are pretty unstabilized. M16s weren't designed to shoot .55 grain bullets through 1/12 twists, although I may be wrong. A rifle with 1/9 twist can probably be more accurate using .55 grain bullets.
     
  7. woodfiend

    woodfiend Member

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    Oh, sorry, you are right. My mistake.
     
  8. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Again there's that "probably" bit.

    Until I see hard evidence telling me otherwise, I'd say that the original twist was just fine for the original M193 load.

    My 1x9 AR shoots 77 grainers no problem, even though I was told by numerous "experts" that I would need a 1x7 rate to stabalize the longer bullets.
     
  9. hossdaniels

    hossdaniels Member

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    OK, so who makes a faster twist bolt rifle?

    Also will a faster twist barrel still shoot lighter(cheaper) bullets well?
     
  10. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i'd expect the rem700 223 police models to have a faster twist, but i don't know.
     
  11. sjg62

    sjg62 Member

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    Savage - 1:9 twist generally

    As far as range- some ballistic info on Federal BTHP

    http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=207

    You will drop about 21-46 inches at 400/500 yds
    Drift about 21-36 inch
    And lose a lot of punch------stick to <300 yds to be effective.

    500 will be fun to say you did it----but it will take work
     
  12. woodfiend

    woodfiend Member

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    Yeah, sorry that was a definate mistake on my part. I've never tried anything heavier than .62 grains in my Bushmaster. I've just heard from numerous that people got poor accuracy from .75 grains, but better from .77 grains due to bullet length, with a 1/9.

    I don't know who makes anything faster than 1/7.
     
  13. woodfiend

    woodfiend Member

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  14. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    A bolt action rifle in .223 should serve you well, although you might consider .308 instead as a better all-around caliber. It's better suited to those ranges.
     
  15. hossdaniels

    hossdaniels Member

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    Yeah, thought about a 308, but already have 30-06, pretty much the same, and expensive to shoot much. 500yds is just practice, not shots on yotes. Drops faster than I expected, atleast drop is the same every time. Wind drift is much better than I expected with a bullet that light!
     
  16. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Well, a .308 is a much more accurate round than the 30-06. The 30-06 is more brute force, but the .308 is more precise.
     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Trust me!
    If you want a 400 yard coyote rifle, you want a 22-250, 220 Swift, .243, or 25-06.

    BTDT for 50 of my 65 years now!

    The .223 is at best a 250 - 300 yard coyote gun, because it runs out of steam by then to give the explosive bullet performance necessary to kill them DRT (dead right there) every time.

    1/12 is perfect for 50-55 grain bullets, and 50-55 grain bullets are perfect for coyote hunting!

    The long heavy .223 bullets do not have the explosive performance needed to cleanly kill a coyote at long range. They just shoot a hole through them, and they run off and die somewhere else.

    rcmodel
     
  18. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    I agree.
     
  19. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Pretty poorly, with most bullets. Get a .243 or bigger for anything past 300 yards - it will make you a lot happier with any wind.
     
  20. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    The remington VTR comes in a 1x9 twist for .223 I think. I have one in 22-250, it comes standard 1x14 twist. its a good multipurpose gun. I have taken a few coyotes with mine.
    But like everybody else said, for the longer ranges go for the 22-250.
     
  21. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I don't see that many coyotes in that much wind.
    They go bed down all day when the wind gets that hard.

    Anyway, the 22-250 has always made me pretty happy on coyotes, even in the wind.
    And I built my first one before Remington "discovered" it and made it a commercial round in 1965!

    rcmodel
     
  22. robsc

    robsc Member

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    CZ 527 Kevlar rifle in .223rem has a 1-9 twist rate barrel. The other CZ527s are 1-12. A .223rem. or 22-250 would be best calibers. But the 22-250 limits you to 50 and 55 grain bullets. Those are the only weights reliably accurate in a .22-250. The CZ 527 kevlar .223rem with 1-9 twist can accurately shoot bullets weighing 60 - 75 grains out to 600 yards and will handle wind better than a fast 55grain bullet from a .22-250. I would get the CZ 527 Kevlar in .223rem. Matter of fact that`s what I have. Warne riings and Weaver V24 varmint plex reticle. It also has a trigger system that is adjustable for pretravel, sear engagement, pull weight, over travel. Push the trigger forward and it becomes a set trigger. The set trigger has another separate sear engagement adjustment. The adjustments are easy.
    Another varmint coyote caliber would a .270wsm heavy barrel. This comes from .404 Jeffries cartridge which is what the 300wsm is made from. .300wsm necked down to .270 with a 120 or 130 grain bullet is super for your stated purpose and also for a deer or antelope at those longer distances. .270wsm is about equal to the .270Weatherby. It is a powerful flat shooing cartridge.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  23. skinewmexico

    skinewmexico Member

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    Because most American bolt action rifle companies are stuck in the 60s. I have a Savage Model 12 with a 1-7 twist, and it shoots Black Hills 77g SMKs and 80g Bergers really well @ 500. My 13 year old son shoots sub-MOA in F-Class with it @ 500, from a bipod. I have some 80g bullets I got from Swampworks I need to load. Never shot anything living at that distance, although I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a coyote if the opportunity arose.
     
  24. robsc

    robsc Member

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    Have you considered a heavy barrel Weatherby varmint rifle in .240 weatherby magnum? Get 100 brass cases and 120 grain boattail hp bullets and work up a load. You would be set for 400/600 yard coyotes deer antelope.
     
  25. f4t9r

    f4t9r Member

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    400-500 yards is a long shot on a coyote. I would (without looking it up) think the 223 would drop a good bit at 500 yards.
    You must have a big open space to hunt. I would think most are taken at
    100-200 yards. At that kind of range you will need to spend some good money on a scope if you do not already have one.
     
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