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How does FFL "multi-purchase" reporting effect you?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by leadcounsel, Jan 16, 2012.

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  1. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    So with multiple handgun purchases in 5 days at the same FFL, or now with rifles in a few states, the FFL has to report the purchase to the ATF.

    Practically, how does that effect you? - Oh, and conspiracies welcome! :)
     
  2. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I've done it before, but for the most part, I avoid making a purchase that would require the dealer to submit the 3310.4 form. I'm not paranoid, I just don't like when my information is used/distributed against my will. I hate having my finger prints taken for a carry permit, and I hate having my name sent to the atf if I buy more than one handgun.
     
  3. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Speaking as an FFL, it increases my cost of doing business as it's more time spent doing paperwork. Unfortunately any cost increase gets passed along to customers.
     
  4. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    I have ordered handguns online before and had several arrive in the same week. When I went by the FFL on the weekend to pick them up, his suggestion was to only pick up two at a time and wait a week to pick up the others. FFLs don't want to have to deal with the silly paperwork either.
     
  5. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    He has to do as much "silly paperwork" for two as he does for 4 or 8 or 100, not withstanding the extra line items listing the gun Really, the burden is minimal- especially considering the infrequency of qualifying multiple sales.

    Reporting requirements don't really add any extra burden on to the buyer- unless the ATF decides to question them to confirm that they are not unlawfully dealing.

    The seller is exposed to a minimal additional processing burden and an added liability burden of having to ensure that another document is properly filled. There is also the cost burden of transmission.

    The multiple handgun transfer notification also adds a burden/ liability for receiving LEAs that are thereafter required to submit certification to ATF that they have handled/ disposed of forms received in accordance with federal regulations.

    The biggest argument is the privacy angle- though that does not concern me at all- just about every gun that I buy is reported to the state police and my local CLEO already per state law.
     
  6. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I don't have enough disposable income to worry about buying two rifles at the same time.
     
  7. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Uh, no.:scrutiny:
    If you were a licensed dealer you would realize how wrong you are.
    I average three "multiple sales" of handguns each week.....and i only do transfers. Storefronts in my town average three multiple sales EVERY DAY!

    Each form takes about three minutes to complete...IF.....I don't get interrupted. Then I get to address an envelope to the local PD so I can mail their copy, then i get to fax a copy to ATF.

    Not too much of a hassle if a customer acquires both on the same day, but if that customer comes in and I transfer another handgun.....i get to go back and fill out another form. I have one collector who picked up four pistols in a week.....none on the same day. Guess how any forms/faxes/mailings that was? (three):banghead:

    If I fail to notice that the guy who bought a gun on Monday, picked up another one one on Friday I'm in violation. ATF considers each and every error or ommission as "wilfull" which could lead to a fine, imprisonment or loss of my FFL

    So, yeah...the burden is minimal.
     
  8. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

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    It is a hassle. The form must be filled out and transmitted the same business day. And then Copy 2 to CLEO (a requirement I think they are going to cut out).
    Also I mention that ATF uses the information to generate a database of firearms and their owners. Ask me how I know.
    My biggest objection is that it is utterly worthless in preventing crime.
     
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I simply won't ever do it again. I suspect that's what most people will do. It will generate absolutely no useful information for ATF, but of course that's not why they did it.
     
  10. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    You're right, I'm not an FFL. However, I do know how to read data and my understanding is that there is appx. 140,000 multiple handgun transfer reports nationally per annum. During the August-October reporting period, there was 502 multiple deatchable mag semi-automatic sale reports- with 65% coming in from TX. In 2011, there were appx. 16 million NICS checks nationally though it is suggested that there may only be 6.5 million or so firearm transfers- checks may be conducted for other purposes (e.g. licensing). If half of that 6.5 million number are pistols- then 140,000 is a statistical drop in the bucket. I do agree with you, however, that it is onerous to pay attention for staggered multiple transfers- especially in a larger/ busy retail environment- and staggered multiple transactions do, as you say could result in more mailings/ faxes.

    And yes, I do still consider the literal process of processing the forms to be a minimal burden. The liability however, can be great.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  11. BellyUpFish

    BellyUpFish Member

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    So is more than 2 the reporting number?

    2 and less ok?

    I've never picked up more than 2 at a time.
     
  12. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    More than one = multiple.

    When you've picked up 2 at a time, it was reported by law.
     
  13. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Two or more handguns in any five day period from the same dealer.

    Dealers in the "border states" have a similiar reporting requirement on certain semiautomatic rifles.
     
  14. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    And this hits on the real concern- privacy.
     
  15. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    I'm pretty sure "they" are already aware of me.

    Can I get them to carry my ammo and water?

    wifecarrybeer.jpg
     
  16. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    It means I have to fill out extra paperwork on my best customers.
     
  17. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    If I order a couple of handguns for myself, my personal collection, at the same time (for a discount from the vendor and reduced shipping costs), is there an issue if I tell the FFL that I only want to pick each one up every 6 business days to avoid the extra paperwork?

    Is this deemed as suspicious or in violation, or does an FFL even care?
     
  18. snubbies

    snubbies Member

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    Circumvent the (good or bad) Law

    As a dealer my answer would be NO. I don't know where this would stand with the law but it has the possibility of bringing ATF to my door. The last thing a dealer wants is to be have ATF know that you are alive.
     
  19. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    I have a customer that has a standing appointment every Monday night to do just that.

    While not a violation of any Federal law, it does look suspicious when my bound book shows the same customer name on three consecutive lines with the disposition dates one week apart. At my last compliance inspection the IOI had no trouble finding those types of transactions.:eek:
     
  20. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

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    I believe attempting to circumvent the reporting requirement by spacing transfers over the time period is itself a crime.
    I'll bet this will be the next hobbyhorse ATF rides.
     
  21. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    In banking, you would be correct- structuring transactions so as to avoid mandated reporting is criminal. However, there is no such imposition on firearm transactions.
     
  22. crracer_712

    crracer_712 Member

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    That's what I like about gun shows, spread the wealth.
     
  23. 209

    209 Member

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    Typically if we're buying two or more guns at the same time, at least one is for my wife. Since she has her own pistol permit, she buys the one she wants and I buy the one I want. Still requires the FFL checks though and I assume twice the paperwork.

    Years back, I bought five in one day at the same store. I don't think the multiple purchase reqs were in effect back then. I know the FFL holder was happy.
     
  24. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    Does not affect me.
     
  25. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    Running into the multi-purchase reporting problem goes in the list of "Problems I wish I had."
     
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