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How does fitness fit into your overall strategy?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Good&Fruity, Apr 26, 2011.

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  1. Smoovbiscuit

    Smoovbiscuit Member

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    I binge eat to get a layer of protective fat which could help save me if I was shot in the stomach, moob or cankle region.
     
  2. YammyMonkey

    YammyMonkey Member

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    Keep in mind guys, you don't have to be "big" to be strong. I know some damn strong guys who aren't big.

    A stronger guy won't have to work as hard & get gassed as easily, all else being equal.
     
  3. TheProf

    TheProf Member

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    Here's what I learned today:

    You need to be in the best physical shape possible. This is more important as you get older. There's the temptation to think that "I'm too old to fight...so what's the point of working out... the young guys will always be stronger." Well... old age IS the best motivation to being in the best shape possible. That is precisely the age when you MUST be at your physical best.

    The goal is not to be "the next Bruce Lee" but to provide the toughest defense you can bring to the table to those who may want to do you harm.

    You can always improve your physical condition... no matter the age. And this matters more, as the body ages.


    Here's other lessons worth remembering:

    1. Of all the muscles in the body, the first one to go in a fight is the legs. Keep those legs strong. They form the foundation for all your other physical actions.
     
  4. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    I look at fitness the same way as high capacity. I'll never lose a gunfight because I had too many bullets, or was too physically fit.
     
  5. 8654Maine

    8654Maine Member

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    Fighting is like sex: it can be over quick or it can last a long time.

    You gotta be good and you gotta have stamina.

    You can't be mentally ready if not physically able.

    Ok, I'm out of pithy sayings.
     
  6. Japle

    Japle Member

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    I shot in a steel match today and, funny thing, the shooters who were fast and accurate looked like they were in pretty good shape, too. The fat ones frequently took 2 ½ to 3 seconds to get off their first shot and had slow-motion transitions. No wonder.
    How much muscle tone can you expect to have if you don’t get any exercise?
    How can you have fast-twitch muscles if the only twitch your muscles get is feeding your face?
     
  7. SentinelStrategic

    SentinelStrategic Member

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    When you're talking about someone that is larger due to their physical exercise and weight training, the cardio threshold will be equally as high. This is why they establish weight classes. Someone who is a flyweight cannot stand a sporting chance against someone who is a heavyweight. The flyweight may have speed and good hits, but they stand to sustain significantly harder and more damaging blows from a heavyweight, with a great chance of injury and knockout. The physical advantage goes to the greater size and weight. Such is why you won't ever see Brock Lesnar fighting Ian McCall.
    I may not be able to run 15 miles with an MMA fighter, but I won't have to if I have a significant strength advantage coupled with a capable aerobic capacity.

    You're right in that size can affect oxygen respiration. Such is why it's important that your size be related to lean mass, as opposed to Cheetohs and Old Milwaukee mass.



    I've seen this too. It's also very prevalent in training. I see a lot of larger guys sucking wind faster and harder when moving. If you have to breath harder, your aim goes down. The harder you breath, the worse your aiming and weapon control. In many ways, it's symbiotic.
     
  8. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    I disagree with most of what you just said. In fact larger guys rarely have matching stamina unless they train cardio a LOT. Look at most heavyweight boxing matches. They rarely have as much action as the smaller guys. Muscle burns a lot of energy and the more you have the more stamina you need. I used to lift weights to build muscle, I was 255 lbs and my stamina was zilch. Now I train for overall fitness and at 230 pounds I have much more stamina. Also, they have weights classes because of the difference in strength and power, not stamina. Smaller guys can rarely hit nearly as hard as a heavier guy. But back on topic, I don't think huge muscles are going to work in favor of surviving a shootout. Bulk limits stamina, speed, and mobility. Cardio and muscle tone will do much more to help you speed up your game. Either is better than sitting on a couch and getting fat. Its hard to have a "fight or flight" reflex if you are to fat and our of shape to do either.
     
  9. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    Being fit has benefits to ones overall survival as well as the ability to defend yourself. It will also help you survive longer than those who are not physically fit.

    Stamina, upper body strength, flexibility and the ability to use brute force are all useful. So is a body that is resistent to heart attacks, strokes, viruses, and disease. A healthy person lost in the woods or fighting off multiple attackers or dealing with a catastrophic situation is better perpared than those who are not healthy and fit.
     
  10. 8654Maine

    8654Maine Member

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    "Fitness" can be defined many in many ways: agility, strength, agility, etc...

    I take the military approach. If you look at the screening test for the elite forces, endurance is the key. You don't have be the fastest, strongest, or quickest, but you gotta be able to last. And have enough reserve to do it again.
     
  11. Japle

    Japle Member

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    As a civilian who's concerned about surviving a gunfight, I'm not really interested in being able to do extended aerobic exercise.

    My definition of minimum “fitness” for any adult male who doesn’t have a disability that prevents him from exercising would be more along the lines of being able to do:

    35 pushups in 90 seconds.
    5 pullups in 15 seconds.
    100 yd run in 30 seconds.

    I say again, that’s the minimum. That should be no problem for any guy who’s kept himself in remotely decent condition.

    BTW, being fat isn't a disability. ;)
     
  12. benellimax4

    benellimax4 Member

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    100yds in 30 seconds. My grandma can do that. And, she is dead.

    It makes me laugh how people try to justify being in poor physical shape. A true fighter is not 100% dependent on any weapon. He is the weapon.
     
  13. Japle

    Japle Member

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    Spoken like a young guy who has a lot to learn. ;)
     
  14. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    I'm 51 and agree that you shouldn't be 100% dependent on any weapon.
     
  15. Japle

    Japle Member

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    Yep. That's why I carry two guns and a Boker auto knife. :D
     
  16. altitude_19

    altitude_19 Member

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    I love rationalization: You always hear the big guy talk about strong making slow okay. And the weak guy talking about speed over strength. Then the endurance jockey talking about pacing over sprinting.
     
  17. Sox

    Sox Member

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    I think it makes all the difference. I realized in an ECQC class the importance of grappling/retention etc. It changed the way I thought about my world! In a nutshell, you gotta have enough stamina to last a good solid 3 minute round full out. This is based on my experience sparring, even with bigger guys. Even the big guys lose some power after 3 minutes. If you can survive, keep your head on stay conscious you are way ahead of the game. If you are fat and out of shape and think you are just gonna pull a gun well I don't know what to tell you.
     
  18. Magoo541

    Magoo541 Member

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    I was involved in an accident last week. A young lady, 17, was waved out by a car in the right lane of a 4 lane highway. I had the luck to be the guy going 30 in the left lane when she got there. I lift weights regularly, 5 to 6 times a week and am pretty big 6'2" and 260 just not ripped (I love to eat). Had I not been in shape it could have been bad, but as it turns out all I had to show for my effort was some sore knuckles. Oh and a 2007 Honda Element with a messed up front end.
     
  19. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    That has more to do with how damaging their blows are than a lack of stamina. HW and SHW fighters hit HARD!

    I'm not meaning to insinuate anything or be rude, but just curious: How tall are you? I just mean, to be in good shape at that weight, I'd imagine you're either quite tall or an amatuer bodybuilder. At 5'10" and 182#, I'm at the upper end of ideal for a large frame, though with high lean mass (~159#); My actual body fat (12.6%) is about what the calculators would project for someone 20 pounds lighter. By the same charts, 230# is the high end for someone 6'5".

    http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1108048103230.html

    Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just always curious what other people's idea of "in shape" is. A truly conditioned athlete with a toned 6-pack and 7% body fat might consider me "soft". At the same time, I know many people who are quite comfortable with themselves having 36"+ waistlines.
     
  20. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    I'll be more direct. Unless he's 6'5" or a massive body builder, he's fat. Same with magoo being 6'2" and 260lbs - it's very likely that both of them are overweight and out of shape. No offense intended but facts are facts.

    I'm 6'3" and 225lbs and while I'm fairly muscular with 15% body fat, I could easily lose 10 pounds of fat to be in better shape. Right now I have a 36" waist and that needs to be trimmed down to a 34" waist. When I weighed 238lbs, my waist was 38".

    Even with my current muscle mass, if I weighed in at 260lbs - I'd qualify for being obese.
     
  21. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    In a gun fight...you need to be able to shoot faster and more accurately than the other guy.....it really doesnt make a difference if you are jabba the hutt or Mr. Universe......

    the fact is, a bullet doesnt care if you have 6 pack abs .....or a keg.



    now for a hand to hand fight.....that really is very dependent....and is really a matter of size and weight, not so much level of fitness.

    because of you take a guy who is 5'6" who is a professional body builder.....and a guy who is 6'5" and weights 420lbs and is not athletic at all.........im going to put my money on the 6'5" giant.
     
  22. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Find an out of shape fighter. Some aren't as cut as others, but that doesn't mean they're out of shape.

    A bodybuilder is not a fighter, and that is a huge size disparity that would be an extreme example.

    That said, I wouldn't be so fast to assume the big guy will emerge victorious. We had a guy helping at the gun shop who was about 6' and weighed in at 540 lbs. I'd have been in trouble if he got a hold of me, but he'd have to get hold of me. His 3 fold weight advantage would count for nothing throwing punches, and a smaller, physically fit guy like me can duck in and strike blows very quickly, and dodge his. Of course, body shots would be about worthless on someone that fat, but faces don't get much protection from the extra insulation. This fellow also got winded walking from the front to the back of the shop, so unless he got hold of me, the fight would be over pretty quickly on account of his having zero stamina.

    And in the end, while these monstrous guys may have certain advantages, a smaller guy who is fit stands a better chance than one who is not. You can't do anything about your height and bone structure, but you can control your lean mass and endurance.
     
  23. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    yeah, ill admit my example was a bit of an exaggeration.......

    now obviously if you are so large that you need a motor scooter to move around, then you arent going to be much help in a fight......

    but assuming the guy can at least run a few hundred yards and do more than a dozen or so pushups.........and assuming neither of the people are professional fighters........i still have to say that the larger (height and weight) will have the advantage.
     
  24. phoglund

    phoglund Member

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    In a fight between two fighters of reasonably equal fighting skills and of a similar size, the fighter in the best condition will likely win the fight. In a fight, stamina is critical! Even if one fighter has more skill but is out of condition, the other fighter only has to stay in the fight long enough for his opponent to tire. No matter what skills you have or how big you are...if you are on your knees gasping for breath, you can't defend yourself.

    Being able to draw and shoot quickly and accurately is supremely important if an opponent opponent is at a distance. If he's in touching distance, its critical to have the mindset and skills to fight hand to hand and either create the distance to go for your gun or defeat the opponent hand to hand.

    It should also be noted if your opponent has a gun out and is touching distance, the opposite is also true. It's harder to draw and fire against an opponent with the drop on you than it is to close with him and take him down...but you'd better have skills and a plan to implement. If the fight for the gun lasts more than 20 seconds or so, you'd better have some stamina for the long haul. Full on 100% effort fights take HUGE amounts of energy!
     
  25. Checkman

    Checkman member

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    Hello. I'm 5'6", 43 and weigh about 220 lbs. I work out three to four times a week. Mostly cardio with some resistance. I like to do the eliptical and I walk with 8 lb dumbells. I break a good sweat. My resistance routine consists of doing three to four sets of ten reps at moderate weight for each excercise. I like doing the circuit routine and throw that in as well.

    I don't smoke and will literally go for months on end without a beer. When I do drink soda it's diet coke. I like my cappucino with skim milk. But I'n not against half&half in my coffee either.

    I always pass my department's P.T. test.

    According to many here I'm fat. Okay I'm sure not skinny. I'm 43 and the last time I was in the 140's (which I believe is ideal for my sex and size) I was in high school.

    Over the past eleven years I've been in several hand on struggles with suspects. Sometimes by myself and sometimes with other officers helping. Or I've been the helper. Though when I compare myself to other officers not so many.

    My proudest moment was when I took down a former Golden Gloves boxer. That fella must have been at least 6"2". He towered over me and he looked at me like I was something you step on and then scrape off your shoe. I told him once not to attempt to step into the house where another officer was trying to calm down several excited and angry people. It was a very emotional family fight and he was the instigator. Why? Well becasue he was the biggest, baddest dog on the block. Like I said he looked at me like I was dog****. He then told me to get stuffed and began to walk into the house.

    You know what I did? I sure in heck didn't give him a chance to use his skills on me. I grabbed his arm and I did a straight arm takedown. Well sort of. I grabbed him. I then pivoted and swung him very hard so that he lost his balance and went down to the ground. At that point I drove my whole body onto his back. Between his shoulderblades. He tried to get up, but he couldn't breath. At that point the other officer came running out and we handcuffed him.

    That guy was furious. At the jail he kept looking at me and told me several times I was pathetic. I told him that this old short fat man (his words for me - among others) was the one who had put him in handcuffs. At that point he tried moving towards me and the jail deputies took him down and into the holding cell.

    So the moral of the story? He underestimated me. And I was smarter. I knew he had the edge on me in many ways. SO I struck first and faster. My level of fitness made a difference. I'm stronger and fitter than I look. Sure I'm not 150 lbs , but I can handle myself. I've been handling myself for many years. I even take care of myself. My weight goes up and down. I'm also a rangemster with my department and I can outdraw many of the studs and outshoot them.

    However many of them are more naturally athletic than me. They can outjump me and outrun me.

    All the years I was in the U.S. Army I was told over and over again that I was fat and out of shape. Yet I always passed my P.T. test. And I passed the twelve mile road march in under three hours and I did the four mile run in under 36 minutes and I did the six mile road march in under 90 minutes. No I didn't set any records at Ft. Drum or in the 18th Airborne Corp, but I met the standards. Despite all the super studs telling me otherwise. Actually I like the tall, lean studs telling me I can't do it. Their condescending attitudes often provde motivation for me.

    When I started the academy we took an initial P.T. test to see where we were at. I was in the top 1/3. Hooray for me. Ten weeks later, and with extensive P.T., I saw many of the same folks from the bottom of the list pass me up. I had gotten a little faster and a few pounds lighter, but they were more athletic than me. Don't know if they were more fit, but they were more naturally athletic. With just ten weeks of exercise they outperformed me. It was frustrating. It's the way of the world. We are not made equal.

    Don't underestimate people. Don't go off their looks entirely. For those here who are 6'2", athletic, 185 lbs and so on I say good for you. You are blessed. This country is much kinder to the tall and slender. Our entertainment is full of beautiful, tall people. Short people are made fun of. My son is on his way to being 6'00" and I'm glad. He'll have an easier time of it. But don't underestimate the little round people.
     
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