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How does one now defend (in a nutshell) owning AR-15s?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ignition Override, Feb 17, 2018.

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  1. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Her speech may have been rousing to the crowd, but is patently full of factual innacuracies and outright lies.
    I especially like the part where she claims you don't need a permit to conceal a long gun in Florida- under no circumstances may a long gun be concealed here, and they may only be open carried under very specific circumstances.
    I call BS.
     
  2. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    I don't want to derail this but this isn't right.

    CA basically has the AWB. You can have detachable mags all day long (no more than 10 rounds) as long as the rifle doesn't have other scary features.
     
  3. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    I agree 100%

    Unfortunately, the nation is listening and believing because she was there and she is an innocent kid
     
  4. LNK

    LNK Member

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    Try telling them that instead of giving up our 2nd Amendment rights, we give up on the precious 1st. No more smart phones, go back to dial up internet, "no one needs high speed internet", heck, we could go back to rotary phones. The founders never envisioned skype or instagram, or youtube. Actually, why not get rid of that pesky 4th, police can search you, go through your phone, social media, email, your car. Clearly the founders never considered electronics.

    Maybe that will put into perspective why Americans need AR-15 's or better. Though I doubt it.
     
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  5. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I was referring to AR- style rifles as that is crux of this thread....but I get your drift bro.
     
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  6. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    I want it.
     
  7. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Sorry. I took it too literally.
     
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  8. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    It depends.
    • What are the specific arguments being arrayed against owning it?
    • Is the person asking for information or is the question rhetorical?
    • Is the person willing to engage in a discussion of your position vis-a-vis theirs?
    • Is the person rational?
    As far as I am concerned, unless you have someone who has a specific argument, is rational, is willing to listen to you as much as you listen to them and has actually asked a valid question (and not just argument bait) there's no point even responding to them as what ensues is only going to degenerate into a shouting match between people who are already invested in their positions and entrenched in their arguments.

    Nothing good can come out of that.
     
  9. Erik M

    Erik M Member

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    I don't advertise what I own to people I don't know. I did point out that beta-mags are unreliable junk & that the one used at the Aurora theater shooting jammed during a college lecture.
     
  10. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    An important point.
    A person with severe bipolar disorder can still have a stalker.
     
  11. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Well, none of their business if you own an AR15 or not.
    No more of their business than if I own books others find offensive.

    But, if reasoned, rational debate is at all probable, because there are between 8 and 12 million AR in the US, and maybe 30 have been used in a crime in the 50 some-odd years they have been for sale. That's 0.00025%. Or 25/100,000ths percent.

    My new analogy (having been through others, like cars, which derail the argument) is pit bulls. "Everyone" knows all pitbulls are, 100%, universally dangergous and deadly, and ought be banned. Other than the thousands happily loved and cared for who have done no harm to children and small pets. Ever.
     
  12. fjblair

    fjblair Member

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    It is irresponsible and wildly inaccurate to state that legally prescribed medicine is responsible for these acts.
     
  13. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    wmgeorge and fellow THR folks: As for how many school children have been killed by a (Ryder etc) rental truck, maybe none on US school property---so far. I don't know what would stop them, without physical barricades, and on adjoining streets.

    But looking at the horror with rental or stolen service truck attacks in Nice France, Berlin, the London bridge, New York City, it might be more than a few children. This is not to minimize at all the tragedy of losing helpless kids in a school, even with one Armed school security guard---but no armed teachers in most states.

    If many kids < 18 were killed in those truck attacks, a few here and there don't make "Good Copy" (newspaper lingo) like a single school for the types of politicians who want to immediately exploit the blood shed.
    Had it been a Keltec .223, or Mini 14 etc instead of a scary-looking (inhabited by evil spirits) AR in Florida, the gun story would be much less dramatic, an unknown rifle which is Not Known to be a select-fire/fully Automatic gun, because ARs apparently are the only guns which can kill lots of people. And they are "Full Auto", as CNN and MSNBC very often have suggested to willfully mislead the public.

    "AR means Assault Rifle to some college kids" in a local college Criminal Justice class.
    Their police instructor in that class, today at the private shooting club told me that they simply form their impressions based on iPhone etc social media. He told those kids regarding AR=Assault Rife "You don't know what you are talking about".
    My Sig P229 (or 226) and M11 A1s or almost identical Sigs were issues to LEOs, Secret Service etc, various forces around the world and some Spec Ops units. As they are Not ARs, nobody would use such handguns to hurt/kill civilians.

    I mentioned my wife's sympathy for a temporary ban of ARs. She has forgotten about my five AKs and pair of SKS, which she has seen more than a few times, not just in gun cases. And with this latest tragedy, it's All About The AR.
    She wouldn't know an AR if she saw one (majored in under. & post-graduate Voice), other than presented on a tv show.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  14. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    If you didn't agitate to ban box cutters after 9/11, don't agitate to ban guns - it just highlights your hypocrisy. How many children died in the Twin Towers? Completely lawful items misused, box cutters and jet airliners. How many died in NYC under the wheels of a Home Depot rental truck - did we act to ban Home depot?
    There is no way to have American Freedom and ban common use items because a very few people misused them. It IS very American to stand up and take one's own safety in hand, as the Supreme Court has already ruled the police are NOT required to protect you, or, (GASP!), your child. Remember the phrase in loco parentis? Schools need to be empowered to protect the kids and protect the kids from themselves - the last time I went to my son's school the out of control ruckus I saw was stunning. That would have flown about three inches in my school before we would have been shut down flat.
    Want to lower murders? Deport criminal aliens and Build the Wall - 382 criminal aliens sit in Arizona prisons for murder RIGHT NOW. Did the Leftists cry about THOSE deaths? No, but they sure want to protect the ones who did it!
    I don't need to defend the AR-15; the Left need to defend the indefensible - it's own blatant hypocrisy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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  15. Hokie_PhD

    Hokie_PhD Member

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    Sadly rationale debate isn’t possible with the majority of those on the far left. It’s also not possible with many in the center or on the right too.

    I was personally attacked on a friends FB by one of his cousins. It seems she’s a far left wing extremist who had to result to personal attacks because facts upset her.

    Sadly my friend supported Chris Hurt (the anti gun reporter whose fiancé was killed live on TV outside of Roanoke and who was elected to the House of Delegates) because he was a friend, not for his political views. Views which included getting Ca style gun laws into Va. Yet my friend claims to be one of us and is a gun owner, went to the range with me often.

    If people like my friend are going to elect peole like Hurt, I’m not sure what we do.
     
  16. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Not disagreeing at all with you, bro -- but 9/11 got us TSA -- can't we just imagine what's gonna come of all this now? I've got a bad feeling ...

    For those who advocate not bothering to engage with those on the other side, I strongly disagree. We do not need to defend, but we do need to educate. If you walk away from someone who might be willing to actually listen to your point of view, and many of us continue to do so, we've lost. There are folks out there that we could reach, if we try.
     
  17. RPZ

    RPZ Member

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    Oh really? How so?

    Mind altering prescription drugs seem to be a common denominator in these shootings.

    It's a multi billion dollar industry that also seems to be the primary sponsors of the fake news networks that spout the propaganda to disarm us.

    When people are being driven into a corner to "justify their AR-15" by this corporate combine, the light needs to be turned on them for a change. And mind altering prescription drugs are a good place to start.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  18. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    We are drifting further off topic.lets call this one done.
     
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