How is this legal?

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DeepSouth

DeepSouth

Random Guy
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The other day a guy I know asked me what I thought about the "maglite suppressors" and I had no idea what he was talking about. Well he explained to me how these "solvent traps" can be used to act as a work around for a NFA suppressor. From what he told me it sounds like a prison sentence waiting to happen, I strongly advised him to stay far, far away from anything of the sort.

Well, I was curious, so I put my google foo to work and was amazed at how prevalent these things are. You can read reviews of freeze plugs on Amazon and their are people nearly confessing to felonies. Their are tons of websites selling adaptors and kits.

How is it possible to sell and possess such a kit. Apparently it is legal to sell them because they're for sell everywhere, but how could it be legal to possess it, the intent is obvious. I can't help but wonder if a door to door roundup isn't coming one day in the future.

Here is an example of the kits I'm referring to.
http://www.preppersdiscount.com/sto...aning_System._ _*_*_O_N_ _S_A_L_E__*_*__.html
 
I believe it is by no means a "work around". In best case, its a way for an individual to manufacture one legally without a machine shop to build the parts. You have to get all the paperwork done before acquiring the parts, so far as I understand it. Still requires all the same paperwork to own as a store bought one.
 
Q1: What's the difference between a solvent trap and evidence of a felony?
A1: The hole down the middle.

Q2: What's the difference between a solvent trap and a LEGAL silencer?
A2: An approved Form 1 and the hole down the middle. Oh, and probably some baffles.
 
The holes in the not-baffles-yet spacers come predrilled at 1/8", which is .125 caliber. Not any common catridges I know of that size. Also, the end cap is not drilled. As marketed, they are solvent traps to assist in making less mess when cleaning your gun. You can purchase and use it as such and be 100% within the law. You can file a form 1 and once it's approved, you drill out the holes and form the baffles and drill out the end cap and voila, you have a cheap, lawful suppressor.

However, as I understand it, they don't work very well. Don't know, haven't tried. I have a few mag lights laying around, including a busted 4D cell. I've given it some thought. Bonus, mag lights are serialized already. So you can use the one already stamped on the tube if you want. Still need to engrave the rest of the pertinent information.
 
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IMHO it isn't worth the prison time and loosing all your guns and ammo for saving $200.00.
 
Funny you mention intent. Thankfully, ATF can't regulate intent until its actually put to use. The Sig arm brace is another example. If you purchase it with the intent to use it as marketed, it's legal. If you intend to use it as a stock to work around SBR laws, then the intent, in their opinion is that it violates NFA. Just like I can own an SKS ,and the full auto conversion manual. Intent can't be proven until the law is actually violated. In the case of solvent traps, the law is violated when holes are drilled and it is used outside of manufacturers specifications as something else.
 
joem1945 said:
IMHO it isn't worth the prison time and loosing all your guns and ammo for saving $200.00.
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If you are doing it right, you still spend the $200 for the form 1. What you save is the cost of the suppressor.

Yard sale mag light:$5
Solvent trap kit:$75

What off the shelf suppressor can be had for under $100?
 
Supressor legislation is moving forward. It will be great when we can purchase suppressors here in the US without the $200 Form 1. I have enough hearing loss and ringing in my ears from working in industrial plants my whole adult life.

I think sketchy work arounds are a bad idea. I look forward to a change in law soon.
 
What off the shelf suppressor can be had for under $100?
Click to expand...

Oil filters for automobiles.

A year ago someone at a local gunshow was doing brisk business selling the adapter that all you to screw the can on the end of the barrel. All the owner had to do was thread the end of the barrel of his gun.

It seems to me that the adapter would be a NFA regulated device but he had folks lined up three and four deep around his table and he was selling them as fast as he could. From what I have seen on youtube apparently they work pretty well.

http://www.2acheck.com/oil-filter-suppressor/
 
BSA1 said:
Oil filters for automobiles.

A year ago someone at a local gunshow was doing brisk business selling the adapter that all you to screw the can on the end of the barrel. All the owner had to do was thread the end of the barrel of his gun.

It seems to me that the adapter would be a NFA regulated device but he had folks lined up three and four deep around his table and he was selling them as fast as he could. From what I have seen on youtube apparently they work pretty well.

http://www.2acheck.com/oil-filter-suppressor/
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That would be wrong, the oil filter is the suppressor, and when you dig through the Caldez website, they make it very clear that replacing the filter requires a trip to the factory.
 
You can buy all that stuff on ebay because it is a solvent trap. Ive never tried it that way but I suppose you could use it for the "intended" use . No one does of course. Its a silencer kit but the ATF has just been under rules not to actually enforce gun laws ever since the last major kitty stomping/baby burning incident at Waco. Whenever anyone says "why don't we just start enforcing existing gun laws instead of making new ones" I just want to tell them to think about what they are saying and how that would play out.

And yes, you an buy the end caps with the holes.
 
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Funny you mention intent. Thankfully, ATF can't regulate intent until its actually put to use.
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Well, I mentioned it because I always have been told they did regulate intent.
Is that wrong? I don't mind admitting I'm NFA ignorant for the most part.
If your right that would certainly explain everything.
 
It's my understanding that you can own a less than 18 inch shotgun barrel legally, BUT if you put it on a shotgun without the papers you are committing a crime. The "solvent traps" sound like the same deal.
 
I think they are mostly an easy way for someone who doesn't have access to a machine shop to manufacture a cheap silencer on a form 1. Thought about doing that myself while waits are relatively low, some of the kits have good reviews.
 
As stated above, many people, myself included, use "solvent trap" kits to make homemade suppressors. I only needed my drill press and the correct diameter drill bit. The next Form 1's I plan on doing will require a lathe and end mill, however.

The 8" long, 1.625 diameter, titanium can I have uses freeze plug baffles and is, to my ear, on par with a Yankee Hill Machine .30 cal Phantom in size, weight, and sound. Still, I only have $310, before the stamp, into it compared to $1,000 for the YHM Ti Phantoms. Hell, it even uses YHM quick mounts.

As for the legality... I made sure I had an approved Form 1 before I had the parts. I would agree that anyone selling these kits with holes already bored out are very much riding the ragged edge of legality, since any suppressor part is a suppressor on it's own. I have yet to see anyone selling the end cap with a hole all the way through yet, but have seen drilled and formed freeze plugs for sale. OTOH, who's to say what the actual level of completion for parts is before you've crossed that line? Is it a threaded tube? Formed but not drilled baffles? Barring an ATF determination letter or a court case, I don't think we'll know that answer.

At the end of the day, as the consumer of these kits, you buy your ticket (stamp) and you get to play the NFA game. You sneak into the ball park without paying, good luck.
 
DeepSouth said:
Well, I mentioned it because I always have been told they did regulate intent.
Is that wrong? I don't mind admitting I'm NFA ignorant for the most part.
If your right that would certainly explain everything.
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Intent can't be regulated. What I said was they can't regulate intent until it's put to use. Meaning you can buy a Sig Brace with intent to bypass NFA SBR laws, but they can't do anything about until you put the intent into practice.

BSA1, the oil filter suppressor is the same concept as the mag light, it's designed and marketed as a solvent trap.
 
I stand corrected. Completed business end end-caps.

Still would not purchase without returned Form 1 in hand.
 
Intent can't be regulated.
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I don't know all the particulars (I'm sure someone in here that knows the specifics will chime in), but when talking to local folks that were either building or converting an AR to a SBR, I remember them saying they had to store parts in two different locations until they got their ATF paperwork straight.

I have also seen posts regarding his situation.

True or not, I think folks were saying the ATF considered a yet to be registered / completed SBR was the same as having it fully assembled / functioning if you had all the parts in the same location.

If that's the case, sounds like they're regulating intent to me?
 
basicblur said:
I don't know all the particulars (I'm sure someone in here that knows the specifics will chime in), but when talking to local folks that were either building or converting an AR to a SBR, I remember them saying they had to store parts in two different locations until they got their ATF paperwork straight.

I have also seen posts regarding his situation.

True or not, I think folks were saying the ATF considered a yet to be registered / completed SBR was the same as having it fully assembled / functioning if you had all the parts in the same location.

If that's the case, sounds like they're regulating intent to me?
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Yes and no, ATF seems to take the position that a short upper (absent a pistol lower ) serves no useful purpose other than assembly of a sbr
 
Yes and no, ATF seems to take the position that a short upper (absent a pistol lower ) serves no useful purpose other than assembly of a sbr
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I got the yes part out of that - where is the no?

Why does it have to be pistol lower - why not any lower?
 
.338-06 said:
It's my understanding that you can own a less than 18 inch shotgun barrel legally, BUT if you put it on a shotgun without the papers you are committing a crime. The "solvent traps" sound like the same deal.
Click to expand...

You better not have possession of the model of shotgun that barrel fits. THAT is what is commonly meant by "constructive possession". If you have the parts the presumption is that you have them for the purpose of assembling them into a firearm. Whether you have actually done so is legally irrelevant.

basicblur said:
I got the yes part out of that - where is the no?

Why does it have to be pistol lower - why not any lower?
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Because if it's a rifle lower then you are in "constructive possession" of an illegal SBR. ATF has long taken the position that "once a rifle, always a rifle".
 
It's my understanding that you can own a less than 18 inch shotgun barrel legally, BUT if you put it on a shotgun without the papers you are committing a crime. The "solvent traps" sound like the same deal.
Click to expand...
You better not have possession of the model of shotgun that barrel fits. THAT is what is commonly meant by "constructive possession". If you have the parts the presumption is that you have them for the purpose of assembling them into a firearm. Whether you have actually done so is legally irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Maybe that is my confusion, as it to me (someone not versed on NFA laws)
I don't see the different in regulating intent and "constructive possession"

It seems like semantics at this point, which would bring me to question what's the difference in owning the parts to a SBS, and the parts to make a maglite suppressor?

I guess I'm trying to apply logic to the NFA, I've been told in the past not to attempt that.
 
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