Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How is this possible?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Nushif, Aug 9, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nushif

    Nushif Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,082
    Location:
    Corvallis, OR
    I was perusing this forum and found some more pics of groups, embedded in a range report.

    One of the groups showed offhand shooting with a group size of less than an inch at ten yards.
    Another one showed a bill drill which totaled five rounds in less than one second with a group of only about ... six inches?

    This was done using a compact framed 1911 chambered in .45 with a 4.?? inch barrel.

    Now, I know there is a lot of very, very good shots out there, but even some of the best instructors I've seen, one of them being an active duty ranger instructor and general superman, another being a very seasoned shooter himself, and one having made it through sniper school with the Army .... none of them could produce that.

    Have I really just never seen a truly good shooter?
     
  2. gunsablazin

    gunsablazin Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    242
    Yes you have. I can fire 5 rds. a second from a government model at 7 yds. and keep them in the 0 down zone of an IDPA target, and I'm only an expert class CDP shooter. There are a lot of really good shooters at our local IDPA matches, you would be surprised, and amazed to watch them shoot.
     
  3. forindooruseonly

    forindooruseonly Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,060
    A top bullseye shooter will put ten rounds in a four inch group or less at 50 yards. At ten yards it'll be one small ragged hole.

    There are phenomenal shooters out there, but generally you'll need to go to a competition to see them in action. Camp Perry is an eye opener for those who have never been.
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,276
    Location:
    Kodiak, AK
    I think you've never seen a good shooter. The bill drill in particular should be quite easy for even a relative novice to get a six inch group, since it's done at seven yards.

    A 1 inch group at ten yards is a bit tougher. I know lots of people who can make a "one ragged hole" group at ten yards, but one inch requires good sights and a good trigger and a good shooter.

    I've said this before, but handgun shooting has degenerated with the popularity of the new plastic "bad trigger" pistol genre. Even 25 years ago, pistol shooting was mostly a 25 yard affair with maybe some "close quarter combat shooting" at 15 yards. Now, people are shooting at 5 or 7 yards and with pistols specifically designed to have awful triggers. It's not surprising that shooting that would have been deemed incompetent a few years ago is considered good shooting today.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,369
    Location:
    Central PA
    Is this all with handguns?

    "Less than an inch" at 10 yards, offhand, would be a really bad day for a 3-position rifle shooter.

    Less than an inch at 30 feet with a handgun is pretty darned good shooting. Not unheard of, but very good. Ask a bullseye pistol shooter if they're impressed.

    As far as a Bill Drill goes, lots of "practical" IDPA and USPSA type shooters practice that frequently. You can go a lot faster than you'd think. Splits (times between shots) down below 0.15-0.20 seconds are common enough, for higher classed shooters. A Bill Drill is all about timing. Not trapping the trigger -- going as fast as you can, but getting a full reset before the next press.

    The world contains a lot of really good shooters. The competition world tends to push some of them to extremes of performance that a military or LEO shooter -- or non-competition-oriented instructor -- really has no practical need to pursue.
     
  6. Nushif

    Nushif Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,082
    Location:
    Corvallis, OR
    Yes. All handguns.

    So, is this particular example just a top end competition shooter?
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,369
    Location:
    Central PA
    Could be. Or just someone who's practiced a bunch.

    (And a Bill Drill is SIX rounds...he choked!) :)
     
  8. Nushif

    Nushif Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,082
    Location:
    Corvallis, OR
    Well. Five splits, so six rounds, I guess? At this point and after this week's "me having anything to do with guns" I am entirely willing to chalk it up to me having miscounted.
     
  9. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    kwhi43@kc.rr.com Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,153
    My wife and I are bullseye shooters. I'm 68, so don't shoot as good as I use
    to, but here is a 50 yd pistol target shot by the wife. The "10" ring is about
    3 inches dia. This is using our one hand un-supported stance. This was shot
    last year.
    50xx.jpg


    Here is 10 shots at 25 yds. Yes it can be done,

    Mikessmall.jpg
     
  10. Jon_Snow

    Jon_Snow Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    467
    Location:
    Bay Area, Ca
    Vera Koo is a member of my gun club, she has won world titles at the Bianchi Cup several times and is an all around amazing shot. Every once in a while I'll see her up at the range on a Tuesday or Saturday and she'll be shooting the action targets at 25 yards. She shoots ~50 rounds at a target, then takes it down and scowls at her 1-1.5" group before stapling a new one up. There are some VERY good shots out there.
     
  11. 41 Mag

    41 Mag Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,824
    Location:
    Texas - Born and Raised
    Not sure if this is what your referring to, but these were shot free hand at 25yds, during some load testing with my 454 Casull and some 300gr cast I have been working on.

    P1010249.jpg

    P1010246.jpg

    They aren't as good as I have done, but since this the first time I had shot these loads for group I am happy. Once I get everything worked out they should hopefully be like this at 50yds as well. Then I will be satisfied.
     
  12. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,986
    Location:
    northern california
    Might be.

    I just took a new shooter out to work on her speed (IDPA), she was pretty accurate, but took a long time getting her sight back on target between shots. After about 3 hours, I asked her to just press her trigger as her sights appeared on a 3"x5" card. She put 5 shots into just over an inch (she actually called out the shot that opened to group to ~1.5") at a rate of 4-5 shots per second (.25-.20 splits)...granted this was only at 7 yards rather than 10, but she wasn't trying for accuracy (it was a grip and stance drill)

    You can shoot a lot faster when you're only shooting into 6" at 7 yards
     
  13. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Johnson City, TN
    This is entirely possible with training and practice. Few of us achieve this just starting out.
     
  14. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,986
    Location:
    northern california
    I forgot to answer the question in the tittle...sorry

    You shoot accurately by seeing the sights and pressing the trigger while disturbing the sights the least...the easiest way is to allow the aligned sights to cue your already prepped trigger. The trigger press is the greatest determining factory in accurate shooting, everything else supports trigger management.

    Shooting accurately at a faster pace in seeing your aligned sights appear on the target faster. This is helped a great deal by having the optimized grip and stance for returning the sights to your original POI after each shot
     
  15. Cop Bob

    Cop Bob Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    739
    Location:
    Deep in the Republic of TEXAS
    He don't know us berry well...

    This is not a real good example, it is in French, it is stage one of a PPC revolver match shot in Quebec Canada.. but it was all I could find in a quick search, that actually shows a target.... This is stage one of PPC match, 12 rounds, 7 yards, 20 seconds, 1 reload..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8EtdmgKW_Q&feature=related

    This shooter, is not a very good shooter, while he did score a 120 12-X.. it was loose.. I know many that this would have been one ragged hole... and at 10 yards, bout the same... I personally have these kind of groups with my 2 1/2" Smith M-19...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  16. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,985
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm just a decent shooter, nothing special, and that's right easy, even for my 73 year old eyes and unsteady body.

    For instance,
    KimberUltraCarry10yds7shts1hole.gif


    Young inexperienced kids will also suprise you.
    Natat52yards.gif

    SWmod3452yards.gif


    Even with small pocket guns, like this Micro Desert Eagle people can do pretty good at distances like 50 yards, while standing.
    MDEat50yards.gif
     
  17. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,986
    Location:
    northern california
    Was it raining or is that just poor picture quality?

    It looked like he rushed his last shot of his first string thinking ahead to the reload and then never settled his grip for the second string after...I'd say he slide his grip away from the trigger. I know several guys who would be very upset shooting Match 1 like that
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page