Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How long before Americans say *Enough*

Discussion in 'Legal' started by The Grand Inquisitor, Jun 24, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Grand Inquisitor

    The Grand Inquisitor Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    It seems that every time something comes along that either rapes the Constitution or increasingly invalidates it (like the new Compulsory Property Aquisition ruling, the invasion of Iraq, or the "War" on drugs...ect ect) people keyed into the political process and those of us here on THR say "well, this will end with lives lost", and, invariably, we are proven wrong.

    What I am wondering is how far things will go before there will be massive protest movements (the protests opposing the Iraq war were great, especially the ones with 25,000 plus people, but there were only a few, and because of that, NOTHING happened) and large scale civil disobediance movements (including violence) here in the US.

    It seems to me that the elite classes have tested the waters and are quickly realizing that the average citizen is so scared of be viewed as "unpatriotic" that no matter how far things go, the elite can do as they please at the expense of the peasant classes.

    Opinions?

    Lastly, Noam Chomsky relates that young people in the US constantly approach him at his speaking functions and ask him, "well, what can I do to help things get better", whereas in Turkey and other places in the developing world, young people *tell* him, "this is what I did to make things better". As a University student, I see people ages 18-30 in their natural enviornment (politically speaking), and while they talk a good game, most of them do jack sh|t to actually change the politcal process they rail against; case in point: most University students wet themselves for four years screaming how horrible a president GW Bush was, and they wailed and wailed about voting him out of office, but when November came around, people ages 18-24 were mostly absent from the polls. They were too "busy" to show up, and because of them, we're plagued with four more years.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2005
  2. Barbara

    Barbara Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    3,230
    Location:
    Michigan
    I see those same traits on gun boards. :)
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    Vermont
    Americans have become complacent, indolent slobs.

    Nothing would change unless the gov't took away cable or dish TV.
     
  4. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,438
    Location:
    Spring Hill, Florida
    I've been trying hard to change that one person at a time, but a huge majority of americans doesnt want to trouble themselves with thinking. Most are just concentrating on paying all their bills.

    Our country has fallen a long way when most of the public will not only endure servitude, but eagerly forge themselves a chain made of credit.
     
  5. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    16,214
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    Bread and circuses, or in our case, food bank and cable TV...
     
  6. bamawrx

    bamawrx Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    460
    Location:
    ALA-FREEKING-BAMA!
    Do you really think it was any different before the Revolutionary War?
     
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Human nature was the same then as now; I suspect, however, the colonists had considerably less leisure time, and internet access was probably a lot more expensive in terms of real dollars.
     
  8. Vernal45

    Vernal45 member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    USA, I travel alot.
    Sad but very true.
     
  9. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,929
    Location:
    Indiana
    I've said this is the biggest issue of our time. I really believe that, and so far nobody has tried to correct me on it. This one really does hit everyone where it hurts most. The big thing is to make certain enough people understand this fact and don't brush it aside or even ignore it because of a lack of understanding. If there are no repercussions from it then those of us who are active in these things have failed to make certain Joe Schmo really understands, for once, exactly what is going on.

    That or America truly is content to watch the tube, suck the suds and wait for the welfare check...and that is too depressing to contemplate for long.
     
  10. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,938
    Location:
    The Copper Country, Michigan
    No, we are plagued with four more years, because we have locked ourselves into a system where every four years, we get to choose between an idiot and an elitist.

    BTW, the breakaing point is very different for everyone. America has grown too big to be governed by one set of ideals, too big to get a good amount of people to get fed up and decide to split. 300 million people will never agree on anything.
     
  11. joab

    joab Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,830
    Location:
    Ocoee, Fla
    I don't totally disagree with you on the innate inaction of the masses, but.
    There is a huge difference between this and the other issues you point out There is no agreement or uniform repulsion of one side or the other on the Iraq or drug issue. The imminent domain ruling is almost unanimously viewed as a vile repugnant act and a piss stain on the Constitution.

    To answer your question How long before Americans say enough? If not real damn soon, I give up and will concede the fact that we are worthless and weak and deserve everything that we reap from now on.

    I too predict that this ruling will lead to some very unpleasant actions in the very near future.

    The big mistake this time was that they revoked the fifth amendment before they successfully revoked the second
     
  12. bjbarron

    bjbarron Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Jersey - *gag*
    I would be interested to know what the percentage of the adult population really cares about the 1st or 2nd amendment...as compared to the percentage of the population who own property.

    When McCain-Feingold got past the court, I was amazed to see that the right wingers, DUs, and Kos kids were all on the same side. But even with that, the general population didn't even notice the 1st amendment being shredded.

    The comments I am reading about this eminent domain ruling has everyone on the same side again (except the hard-core socialists) with the added fillup of breaching the mental block of those who own property or might want to someday. I've got totally non-aware guys at work coming up to me asking *** is this eminent domain thingie.

    A third pro-rebel, a third pro-crown, and a third didn't care one way or the other. Out of that mix we got a country. If history is any judge, it doesn't take a majority to make a country.

    There is going to be tragedy out of this...blown up in all it's glory on the cable news. It is apparent to me that our ruling class has as little knowledge of history as does the current crop of high school students. Watch the news...history might just show that Timothy McVeigh was only the first. Imagine what the survival types out on the Snake River are thinking now.

    There is at least a third of the country that doesn't want to live in fear of losing their homes. Americans (at least in the free states) don't like living in fear very much. From my ancient perspective it seems to me that this stuff is happening faster and faster.

    There is a saying that the American style of government can be described as "...a system where you can pass any law, but your worst enemy will enforce it." The pace at which Americans are coming to realize who their worst enemy is seems to be accelerating.
     
  13. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,514
    Location:
    Colorado, Broomfield
    We can talk all we want and alot of us do.

    But noithign has come of it..yet...

    In a secondary revolutionary war citizens would be sqaushed, going up agaisnt armored vehicles and aircraft with small arms and hommemade expolsives.
     
  14. kal

    kal member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    MI
    "In a secondary revolutionary war citizens would be sqaushed, going up agaisnt armored vehicles and aircraft with small arms and hommemade expolsives."

    Hey insurgents in Iraq tend to do a great job killing our troops so what makes you think we Americans cant do the same? Do you know that if civies were to go up against the government, many soldiers that are to face us would join our side or just desert the military to go take care of thier families. Civies have one of the many great advantages, they can kidnap family members of officials in office and force change. If any civilian population is brave and tough enough to say "Hey we dont like whats going on", the civies will ALWAYS win.

    Oh yeah and we outnumber them. :cool:
     
  15. cslinger

    cslinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,435
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    1st, folks have been bitching about the current state of affairs since the dawn of time.

    2nd, our state of affairs, although not nearly perfect and far from the way it should be is not yet to a point where we need to be shooting anybody.

    3rd, I would much rather everybody take the time to write one letter or donate 10 bucks or just simply cast one vote then "lock and load" preparing for impending doom.

    4th, if the time ever comes where the populace feels the need to rise up against the government then it will not be a stand up, pitched battle. It will be lots of little "terrorist" actions. Car bombs, IEDs etc. See Iraq.

    5th, The unfortunite thing about living in a country such as ours is we are at the WILL OF THE PEOPLE and like other posters have said as long as we have cable TV, cold beer, NASCAR and Playstations then we are just fine. We here may not agree with that but if this group becomes the majority and freely votes to further this then technically we as a minority are obliged to follow are we not. I realize we are a republic, but even a republic can change drastically due to the will of the people.

    6th, My guess is that there are more people who feel the same way as most of us and that when things snap it will be less violence and more cultural we're just not gonna take it (PC, Judicial Activism etc.) anymore. Some of this has already started happening and I believe the current trend of "extreme" conservatism is part of that backlash.

    My 2 cents which is worth exactly well it's worth jack, cuz I am just some idiot sipping his whiskey banging away on his keyboard.

    All that being said VOTE. VOTE IN YOUR PRIMARIES. VOTE IN YOUR LOCALS. VOTE IN THE BIG ONEs. We are a powerful block and we wield more power in the ballot box then with the ammo box, for the time being anyway.

    Chris
     
  16. cslinger

    cslinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,435
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Oh and buy a Barret Light .50 so we can have a chance against their tanks, and shoot their planes from the sky and knock out their satalite surveillance. :rolleyes: :scrutiny:
     
  17. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,938
    Location:
    The Copper Country, Michigan
    The problem is, that even when they get united against something, they just spend time blaming the other side. The whole property thing, no one likes. The DUers blame the conservatives, we sit here blaming the liberals. I try to blame the 5 geniuses on the SC. I don't know which sde they were affiliated with, but their position was wrong.
     
  18. Refirignis

    Refirignis Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    42
    Martial Law, suspension of all rights (err...privileges, I mean), and house-to-house searches and arrests might do it.
     
  19. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,027
    The only way massive protests will happen is if McDonalds starts serving cold Big Macs. As long as the fast food is cheap and warm, the masses are happy. These horrible crimes that have been mentioned impact such a small number of people that it's statistically noise.

    I'd be more interested to know what percentage of the population even knows there is a 1st or 2nd Amendment. I think we might be shocked by the results of that sample.
     
  20. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,746
    Location:
    Oregon, in the Willamette Valley
    Guerillas tend to win conflicts. Add in video cameras on every corner. If it happens, it will be long, and ugly. Look at the trouble we've had with Iraq.
    Who was it with that quote about a rifle behind every blade of grass?
     
  21. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,514
    Location:
    Colorado, Broomfield
    Truth.

    We could carry on the fight for 100 yeasra nd still not win that way though. Harras yes, win, not really. Unless it would get to a point where they just give up, but with those kind of tactics it would be a very very long time to wear them down.
     
  22. only1asterisk

    only1asterisk member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,412
    Never. It makes me sad to say, but that's the answer. Individuals will, but never people in any number.

    David
     
  23. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    Grand Forks, North Dakota
    I think the houseing bubble will pop and that will be the point that many people are going to look around and say *** happened. With the ecomomy going the way it is I am afraid that things can get MUCH worse than they are right now. I think we are about due for another 1929.
     
  24. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    2,661
    Location:
    Leeds, AL.
    Got kids? A job, a business, a house, dog, car, land, and accessories for all that? Are those things dear to you? Why would Joe Public risk losing all that when "it's not so bad", he thinks? The average person does not give a spit about most things as long as they don't affect him. Most people aren't really feeling the pinch. You and I might see it but even we are most likely used to many, many little invasions that would have outraged people 100 years ago, had they been suddenly thrust upon them. But we are gradually acclimated to more. More taxes, more paperwork, more red-tape, more pointless spending, more restrictions, more and more.

    We are not doing anything because most of us need to be told what to do. The average citizen alive during the Revolution was likely no better. Everyone didn't decide as one "Well, the Brits are right buggers, let's off 'em". Some of them decided on this course of action and pulled the rest along with them. I am reminded of the end of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Heinlein(spoilers along the starboard, matey).



    The people have overthrown their jailers. These are a people who lived in anarchy, or close to it. And they found their new government. Of the people, by the people, all that good stuff. And this government slowly starts to regulate everything that moves. The revolution is only just finished, the ink isn't even dry yet. As Daltrey wailed, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
     
  25. gc70

    gc70 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,980
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The prospects of massive armed action are remote in the extreme. Change will occur, but don't expect a replay of 1776 - instead, think of 1933. We had a revolution in this country when FDR took office and not a shot was fired. I agree with cslinger that when enough people are tired enough of what's going on, we will have another silent revolution - at the ballot box.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page