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How long before someone necks down 30 R-AR to 6.5 ?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by SteveW-II, May 19, 2010.

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  1. SteveW-II

    SteveW-II Member

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    And what happens to 6.5 Grendel at that point ?

    But seriously, between 6.5 Grendel and 30 R-AR, which has the most case volume for a given bullet ? Can't find that listed anywhere as these are such new rounds.

    I was about to 'jump' into 6.5 Grendel, building a 24" target AR and changing out the short barrel on my 16" M4gery. Now, not so sure..

    Not Grendel bashing, just thinking about potential longevity of the round. It's not like brass is plentiful now..

    While we are talking about Grendel, is the Les Baer 264 LCB-AR a Grendel in all but name, so they don't have to pay AA some royalty ?

    [edited to say that I just found some discussion of it here : http://www.theguncounter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=11259
    so it looks like the LBC and Grendel are much the same thing. From the obscure references in the first post, it looks like Rem are thinking
    of a 6.5 R-AR too]

    S.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  2. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    PFFFFFT!

    First someone will have to get thier hands on 30rar which at this point is pretty much vapourwear
     
  3. SteveW-II

    SteveW-II Member

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    If you want it, you can find it. Midway is out of stock, it's true, but who buys ammo from them ?

    The following all indicate the ammo is in stock :
    http://www.centerfirefirearms.net/remington-grain-metal-case-p-10543.html
    http://www.finfeatherfuroutfitters.com/remington-grain-metal-case-p-12304.html
    http://www.dansgunroom.com/premier-accutip-remington-grain-boattail-p-12016.html
    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catal...Name/20rds-30-remington-ar-125gr-accutip-ammo

    The ammo vendors at my local gun show had it on the stand last Saturday. $19 for 20 rounds (125 gr) plus tax.

    I can't find just packaged brass, but I don't think it will be long behind.

    PFFFFFT indeed ! :D
     
  4. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Exactly

    this cartridge was introduced; what almost 2 years ago and you're just now seeing the START of components trickling out. I got tired of having my chain yanked on the 30RAR and instead went the 30HRT route

    After this, the original 6.8 debacle and the SAUM's I would not be putting much faith in big greens ability to deliver the goods.

    ETA take a look at the plethora of wssm variants folks have out for the AR15 they do everything the RAR case does plus much much more.
    http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/WSSM page.htm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2010
  5. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    The comparison of 6.5-.30RAR to 6.5 Grendel (or 6.8 SPC) is somewhat flawed because the .30RAR loads into a magazine in single-stack, single-feed mode. Case capacity of the .30RAR is about 25% more than the Grendel.
     
  6. SteveW-II

    SteveW-II Member

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    Interesting web site. Are you running any of the WSSM calibers in an AR ?

    I get what you are saying about Remington's ability to deliver. I would go so far as to say that Remington have abandoned the 260 Rem and only put out hunting ammo for what is (IMHO) a very good target round.

    However, if you had to pick between long term availability of Remington factory brass vs. a semi wildcat (the Grendel), then all I am saying is that its likely that the Remington brass will have a longer period of availability. Maybe that's a moot point, as any 6.5 version of the 30 R-AR will be a wildcat too, but it the availability (at a reasonable price) of brass that I am thinking of and is what is influencing my choice.

    I think you must have weighed the same issues with the 30HRT. I think that's a 6.8 Remington SPC necked up to .30 with the shoulder knocked back, right ? (I have no idea of what ballistics are available with it). If Rem stopped making the brass, who are you left with as a brass source ? Maybe SSA ? Most likely with a significant price hike.

    Again, that's my (badly made) point. I am wondering that if I invest in the Grendel now, and a 6.5 based on the 30 R-AR appears, will Grendel brass get more and more expensive. It's already spendy ! It's just one of life's conundrums :D
     
  7. SteveW-II

    SteveW-II Member

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    Zak said : Case capacity of the .30RAR is about 25% more than the Grendel.

    Thank you. I didn't know that. I guess that makes it very close to the 30 BR.
     
  8. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Point taken

    actually ramington SPC brass is almost worthless from a reloading standpoint. Because of it's inability to handle pressure due to the thin web around a gooy large primer pocket. I use Hornady brass for forming. Remember SPC survived IN SPITE of Remington mostly because of it's crossover appeal and being one of only two similar rounds.

    RAR has none of this going for it.

    As to the case itself, capacity is similar but pressures involved are conciderably less than 30BR
     
  9. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    "How long before someone necks down 30 R-AR to 6.5 ?"

    I'll play; November 22, 2010. ??
     
  10. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    The Remington .30 AR case holds 44 grains of water, when filled to the mouth. A WSSM case holds 52. No matter how it’s necked or how it’s loaded, compare to cartridges derived from the WSSM, those based on the RAR case will always be the weak sister.
     
  11. SteveW-II

    SteveW-II Member

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    What I am trying to work out is, if a 6.5 version of the 30 R-AR hits the market would it eclipse the 6.5 Grendel in the AR platform ?

    The round based on the 30 R-AR would hold more powder but the magazines would hold fewer rounds. Would likely suit the target shooting AR crowd.

    The 6.5 Grendel would offer double stack magazines, but less powder capacity.
    Will continue to appeal to Mil/LE who want more knock down power then 556 but as many rounds as you can get in a magazine.

    Maybe, as mentioned above, the target/long range AR crowd who want what the 6.5-30 R-AR offers will be using WSSM based calibers, and the Grendel will remain viable for the Mil/LE folks. Oh well.

    As you were.
     
  12. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Ballistically, absolutely.

    Reliability? Who knows.

    A long-range rig set up in 6.5-.30RAR would be pretty interesting to me, if it worked 100% and was consistently accurate.
     
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