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How many have pushed a load so hard

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Nate1778, Dec 17, 2009.

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  1. Nate1778

    Nate1778 Member

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    they blew the gun. I know people double charge and that is understandable. I am just wandering if anybody has pushed a load so hard they blew the weapon. You hear all the time about modern load manuals being conservative now a days and do not "ever" exceed max load, but I wander how much harder you can push modern published data. Not that I plan on running to the max on every load but my 9mm in Red Dot has a we bit more case space and the load, although fun to shoot, it lighter than the typical white box stuff.

    I know guns have a rating at least twice normal operating pressures so there has to be a bit of room for error.
     
  2. DWFan

    DWFan Member

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  3. Floppy_D

    Floppy_D Member In Memoriam

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    Part of the economy of reloading comes from not blowing things up. Most folks gradually work up loads, watching for pressure signs along the way, in pursuit of an accurate or economical load. I can't imagine a person who would willingly ignore pressure signs, and continue to load hotter. The exception would be someone looking to destroy a gun.

    That's a blanket statement that I wouldn't put any faith in. What are you looking to accomplish? Turning a 9mm into a 357 magnum?
     
  4. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Once witnessed a S&W 27 blow three cylinders apart, but not from pushing the load. Seems the owner misidentified Bullseye for whatever he intended to use for a magnum load.

    Sometimes you'll see excessive pressure signs before reaching the published max; other times you can push the envelope and still look okay. Problem is, looks can be deceiving.
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Not I. Mamma didn't raise no fool. ;)
     
  6. Nate1778

    Nate1778 Member

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    No, just a wee bit hotter. I watch pressure signs and been reloading long enough to work a load. I guess as I was thinking about it last evening, it dawned on me I have never scene someone say they blew a gun up from working a load to high. Most either used the wrong powder, double charged, or squibed and blew. I was just wandering if anybody had ever added that "Last" proverbial grain and went Kaboom.
     
  7. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Why not try a slower powder?
     
  8. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Maybe you should find one of these products that suits your needs.
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    It would be unreasonable for a reasonable reloader to ever blow up a gun.

    Not to say it has never happened, but you get plenty of warning signs before the gun disappears in a puff of smoke & shrapnel.

    Now, with that said, it is far easier to blow a case, which in a pistol, usually results in a magazine blown out, extractor blown off, grips splintered, and some harm to the hand holding the gun.

    In a high-power rifle, the same case failure results in a catastrophic failure of the arm itself.

    Pressure signs occur gradually, and progressively in a high-power rifle.
    Stiff bolt lift, leaky primer, loose primer pocket, brass extruding into the bolt face, and finally, complete failure of the case.

    Not so much in a pistol or revolver, because things like blown or pierced primers, enlarged primer pockets, and extruded brass happen about 20,000 - 30,000 PSI higher then any 9mm case or gun can handle.

    Reloading manuals have not been dumbed down or lawyered up over the years.
    What has happened is much more precise and better pressure testing equipment, namely the electronic pressure transducer.

    Today, pressure spikes and brief excursions above allowable pressure can be seen on a computer screen in real time.

    Back in the day, pressure testing involved mashing a copper slug, and it could not register a pressure spike that was too short in duration to mash the copper slug.

    Best follow established maximum loads in the better load manuals.
    They tell you right there in plain English how much pressure the load develops, and they won't lead you astray far enough to blow up a gun or blow a case..

    rc
     
  10. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Not I. One of the big advantages of being a reloader is loading down for accuracy, doesn't much good to have the supper zipper fast bullet that doesn't hit anything.

    Furthermore I'm an individual who doesn't like pain and that encludes the wrists and shoulder. But thats just me!

    As stated already, mayhaps try some manuals and literature on reloading and accuracy.
     
  11. Nate1778

    Nate1778 Member

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    Yes thanks guys I have the manuals. This question really isn't posed on the load mentioned above but more the principle. There is load data, there is min and max load data. There are pressure signs, I think were all clear on that fact. The question is has anyone blown there gun pushing the max load data at a reasonable level. Obviously pushing it to 30%-40% is going to get close to double load charges. The question is has anybody ever loaded a max load, said huh that wasn't bad and pushed it 5-10% and the gun detonated. I just cannot recall anyone saying they have had this happen.
     
  12. nitetrane98

    nitetrane98 Member

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    Back in the day when I was dumber than I am now I tried to find the ultimate bad boy .357 magnum load. With several different powders I would approach the published maximum always looking for pressure signs. Only once did I go over max with Blue Dot, a 1/10th of a gr at a time. It was a glorious roar and flame signature. I think it was 3/10 gr over but I started to see the beginning of primer flattening so I backed off. Anyway, as it turned out it was nowhere near as accurate as lesser loads and it hurt like hell in a 6" Trooper MKIII
    I'm presuming your Red Dot load is at max. What is your purpose for wanting to fill the case? I can understand the "just to see what if" reasoning too. Are you convinced that Red Dot is the ultimate powder for 9mm performance?
    I'm with RC on this, if you go up easy, chances are you'll see pressure signs well before damaging a gun. Presuming it's a strong gun, you'd almost have to be wanting to tear up a gun to proceed beyond pressure signs..
     
  13. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    I've blown brass cases in a *very* strong revolver, but never hurt a gun. (it's not easy getting half a .30 Carbine case out of a Blackhawk cylinder that is sticky even with light loads) More often I've had primer pockets loosen up after one firing -- another good sign to back off.

    Red Dot is the ultimate accuracy-and-economy powder (especially if you use the Promo version.) It's a good one for 9mm target loads. Do not hotrod Red Dot or Green Dot. You can hot rod Bullseye; it seems to like it, but a slower powder like Unique, Herco, or HS-6 might be a better choice.
     
  14. Beelzy

    Beelzy Member

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    Only those folks whose last words on this Earth are, "Hey everybody look what I can do"
    would care to do this act you mention.

    Bwhahahahahahah!
     
  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Future Darwin Award winner. :uhoh:
     
  16. Nate1778

    Nate1778 Member

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    Yeah, not saying I am going to try it, just inquiring if it has happened. Thank you RC and others. I did figure there would be case failure prior to detonation.
     
  17. Clarence

    Clarence Member

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    It makes no sense to push any cartridge beyond the maximum recommended loads. If you need more performance pick a different cartridge.
     
  18. RandyP

    RandyP Member

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    Follow Mrs. Gump's sage counsel and you won't go far wrong.

    Don't follow it and become a statistic of Darwinism.

    Life is a series of choices.
     
  19. GP100man

    GP100man Member

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    I don`t shoot nuttin anybody hands me unless it has correct factory ammo!!!

    When I was young & dumb a person handed me a Model 29 8 3/8 brrl. (his revolver& ammo)

    I shot 4 rnds & it bound up , the frame was warped enuff to bind the cyl against the barrel .

    Needless to say I grew older & smarter qwik!!!!!

    Never again will I shoot nuttin but MY handloads or reputable factory ammo!!

    This happened almost 30yrs ago & when I see a kaboom or summtin mentioned `bout it the memory comes back as if it just happened!!!!
     
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    "Here, hold my beer an' watch this!" :D
     
  21. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    Check out some of Clark's old posts. I believe he's our resident expert at pushing firearms to the limit (and beyond). I'm guessing he's destroyed more guns in his testing than any twenty of the rest of us combined.
     
  22. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    You have case space because Red Dot is a fast burning powder under 9mm pressures and you run into the maximum load before you fill it up.

    There is an old rule of thumb for rifles that X% increase in powder charge = X% increase in velocity = 2X% increase in chamber pressure. Pistol rounds, with their small volume cases and fast burning powder, are even more out of proportion.
    Y'all be careful, now, you hear?
     
  23. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    Elmer Keith blew up a revolver and part of one of his fingers when doing his development that would ultimately lead to the .44 magnum. He was grinding black powder to fit more in the case and using .458 lead rifle bullets in .45 Colt balloon-head cases.

    The .44 magnum and .454 Casull were both basically developed by intelligently and carefully using double or triple loads in their original parent cases with firearms strong enough to handle them. Original .454 Casull loads were basically .45 Colt triple charges. Try that in the wrong gun, and it'll certainly blow up.
     
  24. ants

    ants Member

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    No, they don't.

    Industry engineering standards are utilized in firearm design.
    There is no design standard that says, "Design to twice normal operating pressures."

    Whoever told you that was lying.
     
  25. atblis

    atblis Member

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    Definitely check out Clark's posts.

    Also double the powder does not equal double the pressure. Doesn't quite work like that.

    If you're after some hot 9mm loads, look for info on 9mm major. You can also make very good velocities, while staying inside sane pressures. Power pistol, Bluedot, Trueblue, 3n38, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
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