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How much ammo is issued to active troops?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Nugilum, Apr 26, 2009.

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  1. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Member

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    If I was an insurgent with an internet connection (and don't think they don't read these boards) some of this stuff might prove useful...OPSEC comes to mind..c'mon guys.
     
  2. jobu07
    • Contributing Member

    jobu07 Contributing Member

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    Concerns about OPSEC are great, but this information is readily available in TM's that have been released to the public going on 30 years ago now. UBL for Soldiers is no secret. But the key in UBL is the B. You can always exceed the standard ;)
     
  3. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Member

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    Just because it's written somewhere else does not make it kosher to confirm it via un-authorized channels. Just because it's in a TM doesn't make it UNCLAS, it may very well be FOUO or CON. Fact is, it's not up to us to decide what type of info is released, no matter how harmless or otherwise verifiable we deem it.

    As far as UBL goes, yeah, likely not a big deal..but hearing people spout off what may be considered typical is where you start approaching TTP info.
     
  4. woodybrighton

    woodybrighton member

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    15 rounds:(
    not a good day
    fortunately bad guys don't like facing bayonets
    spent the rest of the tour carrying 500 rounds.
    No I'm not handing this RPG over till you give me some more XXXXX rounds:fire:

    hello this that the sun
    what you going to do send me to iraq:uhoh:
     
  5. Im283

    Im283 Member

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    Am I the only one on here who has no freaking idea what all the abbreviations are?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  6. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    TM - Technical Manual
    UNCLAS - Unclassified
    FOUO - For Official Use Only
    CON - Confidential
    UBL - not sure, but I would guess Unit Battle Load
    TTP - Tactics, Techniques, Procedures
    OPSEC - Operational Security

    If I was an insurgent with an internet connection, I would most assuredly be at USAPA way more than I would be at some forum that's not even dedicated to military. The military puts a pretty disgusting amount of info out. I think basic load is by no means something to worry about, but other stuff is. This is a tame one, but there are tons of others that divulged much better stuff than this: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2003/3id-arty-oif.pdf

    Oh, and before someone gets mad for me reposting that link while an insurgent is following this thread, If they are here, you can rest assured they have downloaded about everything off of global security.
     
  7. Nugilum

    Nugilum Member

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    If one ponders the overall theater of operations for both WWII & the W.O.T., today's soldier seems to have a huge advantage over 55 years ago. It seems like current "active area" has more supplies to go around than WWII.

    We're not pushing a front forward, and having the supplies try to keep up with us like WWII. I'm not saying life's easier today, but the "impressions" are supplies are more abundant now.

    And, how does this give our enemies an advantage? :confused:
     
  8. steveracer

    steveracer Member

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    All one would have to do is look at any news media's photos of our guys, and count the mags on their person. Why is this a big deal?
    I guess we could assume that some may carry around EMPTY magazines, just to fool the enemy.
     
  9. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    I also would guess that supplies are more abundant now. Not always however, bad weather can make resupplies a nightmare if you are not at a FOB. Birds don't like to fly in high winds (although I can say I've seen plenty of crews that volunteered to fly to get us ammo, or to get us out), and even the rainy season can play havoc with ground resupply.

    I know supplies were much easier to get the last time I was in Iraq, vs the first time (weather withstanding).
     
  10. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    Steve, I got the impression that the others are not worried about basic load, but that other, more dangerous stuff might get posted. Like lessons learned about fighting at night (nod and thermal capabilities and shotcomings), penetration of Iraqi buildings with X type of munitions, medevac operations, lethality of enemy IED's, newer methods of room clearing etc etc. A lot of that info can be found without logging in to a .mil site, and is definitely available elsewhere. Not that the Army itself might have released that stuff publicly, but someone from the Army obviously did.

    The "good" news regarding that stuff being online, is that the war changes so fast the net can't really keep up. If we find a new way to counter something they do, they change it. If we find a way to kill them better, they (the smart ones at least, not your idiot farmer who is mad you killed his cousin) will also counter that very quickly.
     
  11. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    The preferred killing tool is crew-served. As others have said, what has been said here has been common knowledge and released to the public for over 30 years.

    J
     
  12. Reid73

    Reid73 Member

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    I find it difficult to believe that someone is going to carefully count 210 rounds in the middle of a firefight and then say to himself "okay, now he must be out of ammo!" :scrutiny:

    I agree with steveracer.

    Tim, "UBL" = unit basic load.
     
  13. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    Reid73, thanks.
     
  14. essayons21

    essayons21 Member

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    Yes. More commonly they would armor up SVBIED (suicide car-bomb) drivers. Usually the body armor would be whatever the local Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police were wearing.

    As said before, 210 is basic load, not combat load. Combat load was usually unit SOP, but I would carry as much as I could get. Didn't really matter all that much cuz I was a .50cal gunner and only left the truck on a few occasions. Came in handy when I shot up all of my .50 cal (~1200 rds) in one mission.

    Most gunners carry more MG ammo, but in a RG31, there isn't enough room. Even with only 12 cans, you have to walk on the ammo cans to move around in the truck.
     
  15. mgregg85

    mgregg85 Member

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    But those were only 20 round mags right? So thats about 380 rounds assuming he loaded 19 rounds in each mag.(He says almost four hundred rounds so i'm guessing he loaded 19)

    So 21 of those mags would equal out to about 13 magazines for the soldier today.
     
  16. gga357

    gga357 Member

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    Are you kidding me has anyone ever gone to FAS.org? Those guys don't hold back. I would bet a billion $$$ that every enemy and "frendly nation" has people checking sites like that every day. France and China are the worst.
     
  17. Supertac45

    Supertac45 Member

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    20 round mags in Nam. Always at least 200 rounds plus whatever you wanted.
     
  18. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Yep, it says he loaded 19. But for 21 * 19, I get 399 shots.

    I believe it also says elsewhere, somewhere on the site, that there were quite a few times when he was the only person with any ammunition left at the end of a firefight.
     
  19. Pack

    Pack Member

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    All the vets in the thread:

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR SACRIFICE! And the information!

    Essayons21, in particular - thank you for the info regarding the use of flak vests and/or proper body armor by the enemies facing us in Iraq. I think a lot of us - or at least me - fall into the trap of considering these guys more simple, and less well equipped, than proper information from the front line clearly shows them to be.
     
  20. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    Yeah, they are simple, but simple doesn't = stupid.

    And they are less equiped than we are, but that certainly doesn't mean they aren't effective.

    I just wish the good guys were as willing to fight as the bad guys.
     
  21. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    Less equipped doesn't mean they aren't properly equipped. I would consider the AK a lesser weapon when compared to a 249, but it is still adequate to do what they want. I would consider the AK a lesser weapon to the m16 or m14 (they aren't as accurate at distance) but when you are doing urban combat... it doesn't matter if you can hit at 400-500 yards when you are only shooting 50y.

    Body armor, I bet ours is better, but they are more willing to die to take us out and that is a very big equalizer. They only use body armor to get close enough to blow themselves up. We use body armor to keep from getting blown up. With that view point in mind, they can use inferior body armor cause it only has to delay the inevitable instead of prevent it.
     
  22. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    I always carried at least 10 mags in 05. In 03 during the invasion I was a M249 gunner. I had 4 200 round drums and a 100 round sack. I think I fired something around 90 rounds the whole time from Kuwait to Baghdad. We had Bradleys and Abrams that did most of the fighting.

    We only had one battle in 03 with a sizeable force. It was a small farm community around Al Shamwa (something like that) in southern Iraq. My company (2 platoons of inf/brads, 1 platoon of tanks and 1 platoon of 11C mortars) was tasked with guarding this bridge about 1k meters from the little town. My squad, being the "weapons squad" was o the roof of the farm house at the bridge with the M240s, Javeline missile, and the M24.

    The town, through the binos, looked to be deserted like most of the towns we had been through. A med evac helicopter flew over the town heading back behind the lines and got shot at by a large caliber machinegun. So we decide to send in a scout party consisting of 2 humvees, an APC and 3 tanks.

    As they're driving up about half way a white toyota pickup comes out of the town waiving a white flag. Again not unusual. The truck gets near the lead tank and fires a rocket out of the bed. The rocket hits the Abrams square in the side and explodes. The truck starts haulin ass down a side dirt road. The tank crew, now pissed they have a burn mark on the side, decide to return fire at the fleeing truck and nail it with a 120 shell.

    Thats when all hell broke loose. The scout party started receiving heavy weapons fire from the town. The humvees break contact as they arent well armored. At the same time there is an infantry charge from the town towards the tanks/APC. The soldiers had a good 3-400 yard trek across open farm land to reach the scout party and the charge was easily repelled. Then they started receiving sniper fire. The vehicle commanders had to button up the hatches and now had limited view of the battle.

    They radio'd back to us to grab the M24 and take out the snipers and heavy guns nests as they could no longer see them well. Being about a klick away we told them we couldnt help but would help direct fire. My team leader and I began searching the town with the M2/ scope and me on the MILIOS rangefinding binos.

    We located the sniper and the gun nests and the tanks dispatched them with the 120 again. About this time they began receiving mortar fire from the town. It wasnt very accurate and was small caliber, probably 60mm. My 1st sgt at the time was an old 11C and decided it was time to end this fight. Am observer met us on top of our farm house and leveled the town with a few volleys from our 120mm mortars.

    That was my first battle and my only weapon was a pair of binos and a radio.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  23. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

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    I'm not in the service; never have been. But I read a lot, and hope what I read (and remember) is true.

    Simple version...This was an issue on a very bad day in Mogadishu (sic) back in the '90s. A couple units of Rangers and Delta did a daytime raid to arrest a couple of the leaders of the bad guys. Expecting little resistance, they had only basic loads - minimal ammo, water and no food. The day turned into a nightmare, with Blackhawks blown out of the sky, soldiers cut off, and only minimal way to supply.

    Lots of things went wrong that day, but it started with underestimating the situation and the needs.

    Q
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  24. Byron

    Byron Member

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    I was infantry in nam 68-69.We were in the Central Highlands so it was necessary to carry as much as we could.We loaded 18 rounds per 20 round magazine. The claymore bag was about 14 mags,I had two bandoliers of 7 mags each,one in the rifle that was chambered and about 20+ loose rounds.That is just the rifle ammo_Our rucks weighed about 90 pounds.March 5,69 was bad and i came close to running out.We were resupplied bya fast moving chopper that made the ammo resuply land out side where we were dug in. Byron
     
  25. Im283

    Im283 Member

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    thank you Tim
     
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