How not to open carry...

[aaaaa]

I have seen ppl that carry open just in a loosey-goosey leather holster. I get that they want to play Dog the bounty hunter but yeesh.

Excepting Dog the bounty Hunter didn't carry. At least that is what I recall from his book. But people playing Dog the Bounty Hunter would likely carry because they are not as tough or smart as the Dog.

 

[cd4337]

He did not carry (HI gun laws+he is a con (I think, if I am wrong I apologise to the Dog family) I was just using poetic license

 

[jmr40]

That wasn't open carry. Just not a good job of keeping it concealed.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I actually saw a guy open carrying today, he parked next to me at Total Wine. Took a moment to register. It wasn't drastically noticeable on him because he was wearing all black and had a black gun in a black holster, positioned at around 2 o'clock. He actually looked perfectly normal and totally non-threatening, probably because he was just peacefully going about his business and not visibly paying any attention to his weapon.

Open carry is completely legal here in AZ but usually people only do it in the more rural areas, this was suburbia.

 

[JohnKSa]

I think her jacket rode up and she wasn't aware that her firearm was exposed.

That wasn't open carry. Just not a good job of keeping it concealed.

Could be it was unintentional. That brings up an important point.

Another lesson in this is, if you are concealed carrying but your clothing uncovers your gun, you are now open carrying. And you might have to deal with all of the negatives of open carry even though you did not intend to.

Exactly.

If you are carrying concealed but not doing a good job of it, you are really carrying openly from a practical perspective. If people can see your gun, it doesn't really matter that you didn't mean for them to be able to see it.

Once you think about that, you can easily see that it is even worse than carrying openly on purpose.

When carrying openly on purpose, you can be more careful about people getting into your space, you can take reasonable precautions like a retention or security holster, you can train to learn retention techniques. If you THINK you are carrying concealed, you might think that none of that is necessary--or at least not as necessary--which means that if someone does try for a grab you are likely to be less prepared than you would be if you know everyone can see your gun.

With out thumb snaps. They were just slow to re act.

A good retention device provides extra time to react. Training helps you know how to react.

 

[GEM]

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/m...art-has-gun-snatched-and-a-shot-fired-at-him/

Guy with his kids gets into 'words' with another. Second guy pulls first guy's OC gun and shoots!

Interesting nuance that if OC makes you more of a target, do it with your kids with you?

Now for the mantra that having obvious guns deters someone from attacking you unless they are nuts:

https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...ail&utm_term=0_5584e6920b-f7427e684e-83999136

 

[Jeff White]

Now for the mantra that having obvious guns deters someone from attacking you unless they are nuts:

Is that really a mantra? Openly armed police officers are attacked daily. Let me give a mantra open carriers need to consider: There are people out there who will look at the fact you are openly armed as a challenge. There are people out there who will move a verbal confrontation to physical combat because you are openly armed.

 

[Blue Jays]

The woman in the original video was nearly behaving in a borderline reckless manner.
Everyone knows the approximate length and general cut of garments they are wearing.

Even without a holstered firearm she would have felt her midriff becoming easily exposed.

Upon getting dressed that day her consideration should have immediately been:
"There is no way these garments even remotely provide adequate firearm concealment."

 

[GEM]

Yes, Jeff - that is a part of the great OC debate:

1. It is God Given Right, so if tactically not so smart, that's not the point
2. It will deter criminals. Said many times.
3. It will educate the public not be scared of people with big bellies and crap holsters flapping around with a gun.

Heard all of that in TX when the debate was going on.

 

[aaaaa]

Man Open-Carrying in Alabama Walmart Has Gun Snatched and a Shot Fired at Him

This makes me wonder, since this happened in a Walmart and surely other customers were in the area, if someone else in the store had been hit by the bullet that missed the guy whose gun was snatched, what would the guy who lost possession of his gun be charged with? And if the bystander was killed, then what?

 

[old lady new shooter]

I actually saw a guy open carrying today, he parked next to me at Total Wine. Took a moment to register. It wasn't drastically noticeable on him because he was wearing all black and had a black gun in a black holster, positioned at around 2 o'clock. He actually looked perfectly normal and totally non-threatening, probably because he was just peacefully going about his business and not visibly paying any attention to his weapon.

Open carry is completely legal here in AZ but usually people only do it in the more rural areas, this was suburbia.

Just to add, for all who think people who open carry are all old fat white guys with floppy holsters, this was a tall well-built black guy maybe 40 years old, and the holster appeared extremely sturdy, nothing moved when he moved.

 

[old lady new shooter]

The woman in the original video was nearly behaving in a borderline reckless manner.
Everyone knows the approximate length and general cut of garments they are wearing.

Even without a holstered firearm she would have felt her midriff becoming easily exposed.

Upon getting dressed that day her consideration should have immediately been:
"There is no way these garments even remotely provide adequate firearm concealment."

Personally I don't understand the whole thing of positioning the gun on one's back, but that's probably influenced by the fact that due to my physical condition I would not even be able to draw from a holster positioned there. IAC that's a separate discussion.

My impression of her is that she was not actually trained at all, those kind of pants won't even reliably hold a phone, and then using both hands to hold all those items... she's lucky to be alive.

 

[Old Dog]

One thing about these open carry threads that I notice is that folks who live in states where open carry is either illegal or very uncommon seem to be a bit more critical of the concept.

Many folks disparage the entire concept while engaging in broad stereotypes about those who practice open carry (sorry, GEM, but since you listed some common ones...)

1. It is God Given Right, so if tactically not so smart, that's not the point
2. It will deter criminals. Said many times.
3. It will educate the public not be scared of people with big bellies and crap holsters flapping around with a gun.

I actually know some folks that routinely carry unconcealed, most are highly involved in the myriad of outdoor recreation activities the PNW is known for. They have their own reasons, but I've never heard any of them say they do it because it's their "God-given right" and all of them are well aware of the tactical disadvantages. Most are also aware that, having made the decision to open carry, they are considered the extremists of the gun-owning community and are subject to endless criticism, scrutiny and second-guessing by all the gun-owners and gun-carriers who choose not to out themselves...

Come to think of it, I've never heard any of the OCers of my acquaintance claim it deters criminals.

As far as the "educating the public" aspect, yeah, the whole desensitizing the soccer moms theory is oft thrown out there, but I know, and have observed, plenty of OCers up here who are young, physically fit (okay, at times, some of them do appear to be Tacticool Tommies) and utilize decent equipment as well as quality firearms.

And of those I've had conversation with about OC, many are very realistic about the potential pitfalls and drawbacks, but choose to do so mostly out of convenience, though sure, more'n a few are making a political statement. And yes, I have noticed the Wal-Mart frequent flyers (how could we not notice them?) who sometimes simply seem to be seeking attention (in spite of the Uncle Mike's holster and cheap handgun), but I'm way more turned off by the morbidly obese folks in spandex and people without manners.

Honestly, the issue of open carry seems to widely open the door for a lot of generalizations and broad-brush painting on a lot of gun forums. We all (should) understand that intelligence, physical attractiveness, a decent level of income to allow one to buy and own quality goods, and common sense is not a prerequisite for owning and carrying firearms, yet we seem perplexed when confronted by those with whom we do not agree...

 

[GEM]

I don't buy it. And the ideological babble I mentioned was common in the TX debates. As far as convenience, I don't buy that at all. I OC'ed in the boonies when hunting or strolling around large private ranchs of my friends in the hill country. There was no situation in TX, even during the inferno days that I could not conceal without discomfort.

I disagree with the practice based on the risks and little benefits. I will say that main motive is posturing. Take that for what is worth.

I also find underdressed, unattractive bodies as not pleasant to see in Wal Mart. They also have the right to blob out, even if it is not in the BOR?

 

[Old Dog]

And the ideological babble I mentioned was common in the TX debates. As far as convenience, I don't buy that at all.

Well, since open carry has always been legal up here, there was never a need to debate it or justify it. One would think that the tactical disadvantages of the practice would be enough to dissuade anyone with a modicum of common sense (at least in suburban and urban areas), but this seems to me an issue where, the less commonly it's practiced, the more common it is to over-think it and make it a big deal...

At this point, where many of us are in states in which we're fighting to preserve the gun rights we've always had, gun owners coming down on any aspect of gun rights -- and open carry should absolutely be a right -- we are making concessions to the anti faction. We actually had gun owners up here providing testimony to the state legislature, "admitting" that there was no real need for us all to be allowed magazines with capacities of over ten rounds. SB 5078 is being voted on in our house floor this very week, and we're gonna have mag capacity restrictions in a state that used to have awesome gun laws. Bump stocks? Already conceded. Binary triggers? Almost there? Ghost guns? Bye bye. One at a time, we give up things that we don't find practical for our own use or in our own lives.

The antis are becoming very aware of issues within the gun culture that are contentious and divide us. It's not just the Fudds vs. the absolutists vs. the tactical guys vs. everybody else... We are closely watched, so every time we go public stating that there is a practice or equipment we don't like, desire or need, we contribute to the erosion of our overall RKBA.

There's risks to carrying a firearm already, even concealed, whether we want to admit it or not. Benefits? Getting into the realm of the subjective there. And maybe a little posturing is called for after all? (In an appropriate, respectable fashion, of course -- slung AKs with drum magazines and bandoliers in Chipotle may not be the image we want to present...)

 

[Golfanaticshooter]

Old Dog, you are so correct!

 

[herrwalther]

Excepting Dog the bounty Hunter didn't carry. At least that is what I recall from his book. But people playing Dog the Bounty Hunter would likely carry because they are not as tough or smart as the Dog.

Dog doesn't carry because he is a felon.

https://www.thelist.com/673694/insi...ports,uses tasers when apprehending criminals.

But anyway. Isn't this type of scenario what open carriers claim *doesn't* happen?

 

[scaatylobo]

If you're going to open carry, seriously consider using a retention holster and learning some retention techniques that work in concert with the holster you choose.

Besides the fact that guns are expensive and nobody wants to lose one, there are other seriously negative factors involved. The two that come to mind first are the immediate danger that the newly armed criminal poses to you and the potential uses that the stolen gun will be put to by the criminal who takes it or those the criminal passes it to.

NO situational awareness !!

She was being an ass !!.

Excuses,reasons = will not matter to who ever gets shot by her gun.