How often are guns for sale mis-marked/mis-identified?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Aim1, Jan 29, 2020.

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  1. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    I've sent I don't know how many additional pictures over the years to people who either were looking at a site that had single views or they had questions about a specific area on a gun. I've even removed necks from guitars and photographed the stampings in the neck pocket on the body of the guitar. Confusion in business isn't a good thing and we strive to be as clear as possible in our dealings. That said, anyone can mistype something when making a listing, so extra questions can help a seller as much as a buyer.
     
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  2. Starter52

    Starter52 Member

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    Lots of misspelled words on the auction sites.

    Nickel spelled "nickle"
    Ithaca spelled "Ithica"
     
  3. tark

    tark Member

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    A few years back a Gander Mountain store near me had a Remington #4 rolling block at a good price. I jumped all over it, because it wasn't a #4, it was a #2...easily worth twice the the price.
     
  4. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    At the gun show Saturday I saw a Colt Police Positive Special marked as .32-20/.32 S&W Long. I don't think the S&W long would damage the gun, but I wouldn't want to find out.
     
  5. jmace57

    jmace57 Member

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    I've gotten 2 Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Dutys that were marked as Model 10s in two separate auctions.
     
  6. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Member

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    Mismarks happen all the time.

    My favorite one is the S&W Combat Masterpiece I now own. I walked into the LGS last April and one of the guys said "Check out this S&W we just got in. Is it a Model 10 or a Model 15?" (It was labeled as a Model 10.) It took me about 10 seconds to see that it was neither a 10 or a 15, but a pre-Model 15 Combat Masterpiece. For the price tag and condition, I snapped it up rather than explain why it was neither of the options I was originally presented.

    Also, I did in fact have a Model 15 already at home at the same time. And I've decided O rather enjoy the fun of looking at and identifying pre-model number S&Ws and old Colts.
     
  7. Mr. Zorg

    Mr. Zorg Member

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    No idea of any study that was focused on the frequency of any item offered for sale being inaccurately described / marked. But as technology has marched forward the width of the digital net cast from any convenient location with Internet access has absolutely eclipsed the activities I enjoyed as a younger man with much less discretionary spending availability such as going to gun shows and browsing gun stores and pawn shops in larger cities as day or weekend trips ever made available to me.

    Most internet sellers list important terms of sale in their listings. All sales final, no returns. No returns unless item was grossly misrepresented. Returns allowed only within a 3 day no firing no disassemble inspection period and that clock starts the day the item is delivered (whether to receiving FFL transfer dealer, or other legal shipping address for items that don't require to be shipped to a receiving FFL dealer are common). In any event, shipping fees both directions are typically non-refundable and may also incuur a relistiting fee be decucted from any refund unless an item is grossly misrepresented.

    So as others have mentioned, it's wise to ask all questions and have all requests for additional photos resolved before committing to a purchase, as well as reading all the individual listing T's&C's up front on an item of interest. For me, if a seller won't post or send photos showing a decent representation of the bore condition of a firearm, unless the listing description says the bore is fair or poor condition, it's a sign for me to look elsewhere. Maybe I miss out on something but reluctance and sometimes downright belligerence in response to such a simple request these days just isn't worth the risk to me. It's worse than pondering a face to face transaction say at a gun show with a seller reluctant to show me the bore condition on an item I'm interested in because the shipping and listing fee risks, and the subjective nature of differences in opinion on what qualifies as "good bore" for exampke from someone with no formal / documentable expertise on rating firearm conditions vs my same subjective opinion with no formal or documentable expertise to do that either. And even then, it's still an individual judgement on how that bore condition for example factors in to the price I'm willing to pay for an item within the whole set of item qualities.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  8. evan price

    evan price Member

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    Found a postwar long action 38-44HD marked as a pre model 10 at a pawn shop. Came home with me.
    Bought an EAA Witness Steel Compact 45 for the price if a witness-P because they didn't know better.
    Bought a Colt Agent with the shrouded hammer cheap because the store thought somebody has added a cheap aftermarket part, not knowing it was factory.
    Was in a gun shop when a guy tried to sell a Winchester 94 30-30 to the store. He was keeping his scope and side mount because they wouldn't give him extra for it, then after he'd taken it off, the rifle jammed up and would not cycle.
    Met him in the parking lot and bought the broken rifle cheap.
    Then all I needed was the lever link pin and screw he'd lost and it was perfect.
     
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  9. Mr. Zorg

    Mr. Zorg Member

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    Here's an example currently offered for sale.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/854312708

    The Zastava M70 action has never, and I emphasize never, had a thumb cutout for a stripper clip feed for the internal magazine. However, the Zastava M48 action used in the Zastava M48 military design rifle, and the commercial Zastava M98 rifle (do not equate = military rifle) has always had that cutout, and was as-manufactured only chambered for the 8X57mmJS cartridge. These receivers devoid of stampings are designated M48BO when installed in military rifles. This has been colloquially named the Yugoslavian Intermediate Mauser action. Things like one piece scope bases for a commercial FN Mauser action, and the Zastava M70 bolt action, will not fit on a similarly D&T M48/M98 action. Also, the floorplate for this intermediate action is typically fixed, and can be either milled production as this rifle has, or stamped production. These actions will accomodate the X57mm rimless cartridge family chamberings and .308 Winchester cartridge chamberings, but not .30-06 Springfield cartridge chamberings nor X64mm catridge chamberings.

    Having said that, this rifle is a bit of a commercial / civilian Frankenmauser as a M70 style side safety and smooth bolt cover as used on the M70 action have been installed, replacing the M48/M98 bolt cover with more typical Mauser style wing safety. So it's not "exactly" a Zastava commercial / civilian M98 rifle. But it is in no way a Zastava M70 rifle.

    Mauser also manufactured commercial / civilian rifles using such actions with thumb cutout on the receiver for stripper clip loading of the internal magazine. Here's an example of such a commercial Mauser action.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/855068428

    Mauser clearly manufactured the action, but the barrel, stock, and highly probable the two trigger set system components and safety were manufactured by Zastava. There is absolutely no way I can see this rifle being designated a Zastava model anything personally. It's someone's buildnusing a commercial Mauser action and Zastava components.

    I sent a note to this seller, who I purchased two honest Zastava M70 7X64mm Brenneke rifles from, regarding the description of the first linked rifle and trying to help clarify for potential other customers, and received a response telling me to go pound sand in tone.

    "Hello,
    When we received these rifles in they are all marked M70 Standard by the importer. All calibers we have sold have been in the sizes you mentioned and the Screw Spacing measures 7.835" with a Magazine Box Length Internals at 3.375”. I apologize for any confusion but we did our best to sell these rifle exactly as they were described to us and as their website still describes that model."

    Which absolutely is far less than accurate as the M70 is and always has been described as having a hinged magazine floorplate at minimum. I plan to ask which of the two fixed magazine floorplate screws at the front of this magazine was used when this measurement was taken, pointing out the M70 hinged magazine floorplate has only one retaining screw at the front, and see where this discussion goes FWIW. It seems clear to me the two screws in the front of the fixed magazine floorplate is an artifice from shoehorning the M48/M98 action into a stock designed for a M70 action.

    What I read between the lines of the response is "All we want from buyers of these rifles is a winning bid, prompt payment, and prompt receipt of a copy of the purchaser's receiving transfer dealer's FFL. We don't really care if a customer doesn't actually receive what the listing advertises. That's their problem if they didn't do their appropriate tesearch including asking questions we'd rather not accurately answer even if provided with better information. We don't care if the importer was a robo-stamper, not our issue."

    For reference, here's listings that the photos actually depict as meeting the definition of a Zastava LK M70 bolt action rifle, from this seller (showing they have their own means to know better).

    Pre-owned, among the same other rifles in the crates purchased by this seller

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853506151

    Brand new imported by the current exclusive US importer of current production Zastava commercial / civilian firearms (Zastava Arms USA). "American" designates a rifle of this model manufactured without installing iron sights.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/855516964
     
  10. hq

    hq Member

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    Wildcards are your friend when permitted in search and alert strings. I've scored numerous bargains at online auctions when the seller has made a reasonably severe typo and ended up getting one bid - mine - for a no reserve item. My non-gun-related favorites are Bang & Olufsen audio system components, you wouldn't believe how many different ways the brand name can be misspelled and in general they retain a very good resale value as long as the description is accurate enough to show up in correctly spelled searches.

    Then again, "Holand&Holand" worked pretty well once, too bad someone else with a thicker wallet found it too.
     
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  11. hemiram

    hemiram Member

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    I've seen a lot, the only time I scored on one was back about 2008 or so, and there was a nice Dan Wesson 15-2 labeled as a model 15 "Pork Chop". That was what the seller stated it was. I asked him for more pics of the gun and he sent me over a dozen, and I jumped on the "Buy it now" after I looked them over. I still have that gun, it's almost as pretty as my 715 I got in 2006 is. Just a couple of little spots on the bluing are a little faded, but you have to really look for them. I've seen some S&W 2nd and 3rd Gen autos listed incorrectly too, but the price fit the gun, not the description, making them poor values.
     
  12. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I regularly see Lew Horton 629s and 29s in good condition priced north of 2K nowadays. If you haven't lately, you may want to go Gunbrokering again, because it may be worth considerably more now.

    After 12 years of shopping on Gunbroker, I have literally seen dozens of mismarked guns listed. Typically it's just the description that is wrong, and not the asking price in my experience. I don't understand how that can be since even a bit of quick research usually can help with the proper designation. bottom line though, mistakes happen.
     
  13. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    I am sure that I am not the only one who has been shown a P.38 that was chromed like the bumper on a '56 Buick , hammer and trigger too , and told that it was extremely valuable because such special finish pistols were only issued to high ranking Nazi officers.
     
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