How "strongly" can I tell a pervert to stay AWAY from MY FAMILY???

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Green Lantern

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Sorry if this is deemed "off-topic" - but it IS self-defense related, and as a CCW holder, I want to make sure to avoid doing anything illegal. For my OWN sake as well as CCWers as a whole...

The "subject" is the neighbor of my aunt and female cousin. The cousin has mentioned that he has made "unwelcome andvances" toward her for many years. It's generally thought that this freak has a screw loose, and it's STRONGLY suspected that he's a patient at a Methadone clinic. IE, "recovering" drug addict...

I don't know what he told her this morning, she wouldn't say and I don't think I WANT to know. He told her not to tell anyone later, but she informed him that she had already told a mutual family freind, her brother-in-law, and she was going to tell me, which she obviously did.

(I didn't say anything to HER about it, but even if it DOES scare him off a bit - I really wish she hadn't added "and he's just crazy enough to put a bullet in your head" to him regarding me...! :banghead: )

Here's where things get tricky...being married to such a POS, the guy's wife is regarded with much sympathy by my cousin. I spoke with her brother in law about getting the law involved, maybe a restraining order....

(I KNOW a R.O. isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but at least this way if the psycho DOES attack her, it'll be known that we TRIED to use "the system!)

...but he said that SHE wouldn't want his wife upset by finding out...! :banghead: :banghead: Great, huh? She dosen't really want ANYone finding out.

The brother-in-law thinks that if we just simply told him to "cut it out," he'd stay away. But I fear any of us (except for the mutual freind) talking to the guy for saying anything that might be taken as a threat - or even if we're as civil as can be, the creep could LIE about it and cause us trouble....

I need some advice, preferably more specific than "don't do anything stupid or illegal," and you guys are about the best source offhand I can think of for this sort of thing....
 
I agree with the suggestion that if any of you tell him to "just stay away," it could (probably would) be construed as a threat. And isn't it? After all, just saying "stay away" is rather meaningless. His response is likely to be "And what if I don't?" Then what do you say?

The restraining order route is the way to go. Sure, we all know it's worthless, but as you noted ... it demonstrates that you tried to work within the system. You should get the order (screw the poor wife's sentiments, she needs to know what he's up to so she can decide whether or not she really wants to be married to the guy), and if he violates the order don't hesitate to call the police and have him arrested. This is the kind of situation where you really want/need to create that paper trail.
 
You better get that restraining order. Obviously it is not worth the paper it is printed on in terms of preventing the perv's behavior. But it is worth its weight in unobtainium if you have to act with force.
 
(on arming her)- not quite out of the question, but I don't see it happening. (she's perfectly legal to own a gun, BTW)

I DID give her a Sabre OC/CN unit a while back. I'm pretty sure she just stuck in a drawer though. I **knew** SOMEthing was amiss when she had it sitting on the table within arms reach when I visited today. Tried to give her some of my Fox for good measure, but she said she was ok with this one. Test-fired it for her to be on the safe side.

They have a household gun....a .22 short revolver...ugh. She's said she'd use it on an intruder....

It's like my hands are tied, trying to help someone who isn't willing to look at all options (even the best one, Restraining Order) to help HERSELF... :(

Now MIND you, the reluctance to get one was heresay from her sister and brother in law.

I think I need to talk to her in some more detail, esp. about at the very LEAST getting the sheriff's dept. involved somehow. Then maybe on making sure she really is willing and able to use a gun to defend herself (esp. a .22!). Maybe see if she'd be willing to borrow my Bersa Thunder .380 til this is settled.

I don't want to call the cops without HER consent though (at this point) - because it wouldn't take much to figure out who called them, then she'd be ticked at ME! :banghead:
 
No offense but it sounds like she's become one of the sheeple. She doesn't seem to be too concerned about her own safety if she's reluctant to do anything for fear of "upsetting" the worthless guys wife. I'd ask her straight up, "What's more important to you, you're safety or upsetting a stranger for fear of your well being?" Maybe that'll wake her up.
 
Suing for sexual harassment is a good idea.

I agree with what's said above, ARM YOUR COUSIN. Tell her to openly carry a weapon, preferably something big and intimidating like a MAC or Uzi handgun.
 
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Not sure but the cops in my county wouldn't issue a restraining order to a local kid harassing my mother. They would rather have me get into a physical confrontation. They said in order for them to write an R.O. they needed evidence of PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. That may be a factor where she lives, although I think the cops in my area are just lazy P.O.S.'s

If possible I would go with a R.O. If anything did happen after that you would have "more" justification towards the result.
 
I could do some extended target practice at her house - better yet get HER to do some too!

...if it wouldn't "scare the dog!" :banghead:

No offense taken, loki. It's like she can't handle thinking about the worst that could happen. Not that it's healthy to do so 24-7! But it sure leaves you better prepared if it DOES happen as opposed to just go about with your head in the sand.

Forget "sheeple" - I'm starting to think there's another classification - people that know bad stuff can happen but would rather ignore it - the Ostrich! ;)
 
options

I'm not sure about the laws in your state, but I would first see if I could get a "Criminal Trespass" notice issued. This can be done in person and in the pesence of a LEO, or by by registered letter with a copy filed with your local LEO dept. if you don't want a "face to face". This would enable the LEO's to arrest the subj. if caught on the property immediately, if he left before they witness him there, a warrant could be issued. This would also serve to let him know in no uncertain terms that she does not want him around her.

I would then follow through with the "restraining order" for further documentation that he is not wanted around and that you consider him to be a threat. This serves several purposes, not the least is that you are in fear of him and his possible actions. You are creating the perception to the LEO's in your area that he is an ongoing threat and that you are requesting their assistance in dealing with a possible stalking situation. Perceptions can be very valuable to you, especially if the situation goes "south" and she is forced to use deadly force to protect herself or other family members. It is very important to start the documentation trail. Good Luck
 
Not sure but the cops in my county wouldn't issue a restraining order to a local kid harassing my mother. They would rather have me get into a physical confrontation. They said in order for them to write an R.O. they needed evidence of PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. That may be a factor where she lives, although I think the cops in my area are just lazy P.O.S.'s
Click to expand...

I was under the impression the RO's were issued by courts and not by the cops. Perhaps you might have had better luck in the court system getting an RO.
 
In Montana, basically only a domestic (or ex-domestic) partner can get a RO against anybody. We know, because we already tried a few years ago :(




How "strongly" ? ... hmmm, I suppose that depends on your jurisdiction and how the local LE view this guy. Sorta funny in a way - I have heard several people in our neighborhood say that they would shoot our ex-neighbor if he ever comes back around (and I actually have not said that out loud - yet anyway ;) ). So if I ever see him again, I could honestly tell him that people in the area had been threatening to kill him so he better stay away. :p
 
HMH said:
Not sure but the cops in my county wouldn't issue a restraining order to a local kid harassing my mother. They would rather have me get into a physical confrontation. They said in order for them to write an R.O. they needed evidence of PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. That may be a factor where she lives, although I think the cops in my area are just lazy P.O.S.'s
Click to expand...
???????

Police don't write restraining orders. Judges write restraining orders. Evidence of physical violence is NOT necessary, the whole point of the fool things is to (wishfully) prevent physical violence.
 
It wasn't too long ago or very far away where John Woodring ignored the RO against him and murdered his wife in a battered women's shelter...

IF she agrees to get a RO, and IF the judge gives her any trouble about getting it, I'll "remind" the judge about THAT...

:banghead: Tho I guess he could say "see, it didn't help HER now did it..." :banghead:
 
First i would find out all i could about the guy such as if he is on probation or parole and if so i would contact his probation officer. Second i would contact local law enforcement and make sure they are aware of the situiation just in case you or your family have to take some kind of action it will be documented that there is an on going problem and hopefully when you contact lawenforcement you will get an old school cop who will go have a heart to heart talk with the guy.
 
Ptotection

Unfortunately no piece of paper (no matter what name: Protective order, restraining order, peace bond, etc.) is going to protect anyone from the actions of a determined perpetrator, thats just wishful thinking. Ultimately, your immediate defense at the crucial moment is most likely going to be up to you. Learning how to defend yourself by whatever means you choose is each persons right and responsibility. The police cannot be everywhere, all the time (and I really don't think any of us want a policeman standing on every corner or at our front door).

Laws are primarily enacted to deal with crimes after the fact. In cases such as this, that will be too late to help the woman. Predators usually plan to victimize persons when they are alone and presumably most vulnerable. Encourage her to develop the mindset of a fighter, not a victim. Good Luck
 
I'm going to have to go against the grain here. If everyone that has ever had "unwelcome advances" from a neighbor or an acquaintance filed restraining orders, everyone would have restraining orders against everyone. Society has become so sensitive to annoyances they have become weak and can't seem to deal with life without government assistance. This is nothing more, it has been happening since the dawn of time. Your cousin has handled this very maturely except for the comment. Defuse the situation. Ignore the creep or subtlely make a joke of him. Next time he pulls his **** she could tell him she's not available nor interested but she knows a loving homosexual that would be.

Lighten up guys, restraining orders are not the end all, be all, and usually just piss off the subject and make things worst than they really are. Do we really want the government thinking they must settle every little annoyance and/or argument? Not me.
 
We had something like that happen in my family waaaaay back in the day, As I recall, one of my uncles did the talking, another leaned against the car with something heavy and blunt.

This was back before video cameras and cell phones, but the principles still the same.

Get a RO, its easy and in todays society, whoever files the paperwork first is the good guy.

After that, a discussion would not be a bad idea, but make sure you take along a friend who's big and scarry, but clean cut and credible if the police get called.

wear a nice shirt, nice slacks, and make sure you don't look like you're headin over to whoop a$$.

Make no overt threats, simply make eye contact and state

"I understand that you've been paying alot of attention to a certain member of my family. This attention is not appriciated. I love my family, and so do many others. This attention stops, and it stops today. The subject is not open for discussion, Have a pleasant day"

then turn and walk away

If he lies, well, you have a wittness (who will be much more believable than a pos)
 
Aguila,

Yeah sorry I knew what I meant. They told me that I couldn't get one unless there had been evidence of violence. LIke I said most LEO's around here work their "9 to 5" for the green and could care less about going out of their way to help.
 
sick sacks of garbage like the creep mentioned only understand one way...i know i have delt with a few in the past. unfortunately there is nothing the police will do till he acts on his intentions. good luck.
 
You're doing what you can, but

It's really not your problem. The choice is hers, not yours. Give some advice, try to compel her to act on it in some fashion, and be done with it.

You can't be there all the time, you can't save the world, the ball's in her court now. If she's a sheeple, it could be to her detriment, if not, just get her one of those nice key chain knives for self defense. I used to have one, my wife loved it and ended up with it years ago. A simple piece of hardware that provides some pretty decent piece of mind. One of those knives you grab with a fist and the blade comes out between you fingers.

jeepmor
 
Lantern:

"It's generally thought that this freak has a screw loose, and it's STRONGLY suspected that he's a patient at a Methadone clinic. IE, "recovering" drug addict..."

In this country, "generally thought" and "strongly suspected" are not close to "beyond a reasonable doubt" or even a "preponderence of the evidence".

I have been wrongly accused of improprities and even though there has never been a shred of evidence and I've recieved apologies, it is not cool.

You need to do some homework. You need proof positive, not hearsay, before making accusations and especially before "taking action".

Speaking from experience,

Kowboy
 
"or what?" he asks?


...pining for 100 years ago when you could open your frock coat to reveal a Colt .45, close your coat, walk away, security at hand, freakwad scared.
 
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