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How to convert your liberal friends (to win next election)

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by drjoker, Nov 5, 2009.

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  1. drjoker

    drjoker Member

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    In order to win the next election, we have to do more than just preach to the choir. We have to convert our liberal friends. Here's how I converted a flaming liberal friend of mine to support the 2nd amendment. You may copy me, do something similar, or think something up original for yourself. The key to successful conversion is to have them think that they came up with the idea themselves. DO NOT preach to them nor pound them with facts. Allow them to arrive at the conclusion themselves emotionally. Without delving too much into psychology and sales techniques, the short version is that people make decisions on an emotional basis and then use logic to rationalize it. Very few people actually make logical decisions, so the most successful conversion is on an emotional appeal that allows them to arrive at the conclusion themselves, not a conclusion that is thrusted upon them.

    I have this female friend (let's call her "E") and we went out for dinner together. This friend of mine is a flaming liberal who voted for 0bama. The topic of conversation was stalkers. I told her that I have this friend of a friend who was being stalked by an ex-boyfriend who threatened to kill her. "She should get a restraining order," was E's response. "She did, but it only infuriated him. He beat her up, robbed her, and warned her that if she didn't cancel the restraining order, he's gonna kill her," I replied. "Well, he beat her up, so she should go to the police and have him arrested," E replied. "She did, but he's out on bail and she's scared as heck," I answered. "What do you think she should do?" I innocently asked. E thought for a long second..., "I'm opposed to guns, but in this case, I think she should get one. Although most guns are used in crime and suicides, I think that in this situation, the benefits outweigh the risks." "Well, a concealed handgun license would take up to 9 months to get approved (my CHL took 9 months to arrive)," I replied. "Then, she should hire an armed guard to guard her at her workplace and make sure that nobody follows her home (this stalked friend of mine is a high-paid exec)," she replied. "I agree, but what if something like that happens to you? You can't afford an armed guard," I said. Silence. "You know what you should do? You should get a concealed handgun license as an insurance policy. That way, if something like this ever happens to you, you'll have the CHL when you need it, so you don't have to wait 9 months," I said. E nods her head in agreement, but she hesitates, "Well, guns are dangerous. I don't want to buy a gun." "No, you don't have to buy a gun. That's not what I suggested that you do. I suggest that you buy an insurance policy against stalkers and rapists. Just get the concealed handgun license so that it's there if you need it. Get the CHL without buying a gun. You can get a gun at any time, but the CHL takes months." She nods her head in agreement. "If you'd like, I can do you a favor. We can go to the range tomorrow and I'll teach you firearms safety. Then, I can teach you how to shoot an auto pistol without jamming it," I said. I explained that half the ladies in my CHL class had to re-take the shooting part of the exam because they jammed their Glocks (I didn't know that was possible). They flinched and limp-wristed. "Sure, I'd like that," she replied. "Let's go tomorrow. I'll pick you up at X o'clock," I said. "O.K." she answered.

    Yay! Now, I'm hoping that she'll enjoy shooting so that she'll be a convert. At the very least, she'll be a CHL holder and elected officials look at things like the number of NRA members and CHL holders before voting on any gun control laws. So, whether she knows it or not, she's now supporting 2nd amendment rights right alongside me even though she's an 0bama voting flaming liberal!

    Folks, we have to convert our liberal friends or our 2nd amendment rights will be taken away from us forever. Don't believe it can happen? Look at Australia, Great Britain, and ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES ON PLANET EARTH. America is the last remaining country that still has the right to bear arms. We are the last holdout. I invite you to suddenly realize that you have to convert your liberal friends and acquaintances. Failure to do so will mean our doom.

    BTW, you know what would make a perfect holiday gift? Get your gun owning friends or family members who are not members of the NRA the gift of a NRA membership and/or a TSRA membership. Elected officials also look at the number of NRA and/or TSRA members before voting on any gun ban laws. The more members these organizations have, the more clout they'll have in Washington. NRA membership includes a neat NRA baseball cap and a subscription to a cool gun magazine.

    C'mon people, let's get rolling so that we'll win the next election!

    :)

    P.S. Notice how I did NOT argue with her point that "guns are used in murders and suicides." Nobody likes an arguer and nobody likes to have ideas forced upon them. People only like ideas that they thought of themselves (or think that they thought of themselves). Notice how I manipulated her to come up with the idea to buy a gun. She thought of it and I did not mention it to her. Furthermore, the idea of getting firearms instruction appealed to her on an emotional, not logical level. Not only did this approach work with this female friend of mine, but I also used this approach to get my flaming liberal wife to agree to sign up for a CHL class. My wife is still won't allow me to have guns in the house and my liberal female friend still won't buy a gun, but at least I've persuaded them to support 2nd Amendment rights by signing up for CHL classes. Yay!

    :)

    P.P.S. I've noticed that this forum has some antis lurking here, posting personal attacks, etc. I invite you to just simply ignore them. I have not stooped to their level because I have not posted derisive remarks in return and I invite you to avoid stooping to their level as well. Just recognize them for what they are (closed-minded trouble-makers) and ignore them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
  2. Zombie_Flesh

    Zombie_Flesh Member

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    What State?

    I am wondering what state takes 9 months to get a CHL.
     
  3. Kenpo

    Kenpo Member

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    You guys have liberal friends? :confused::)
     
  4. YaNi

    YaNi Member

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    Ditto.

    It's easier to just stop talking to someone than to try and turn a head full of mush into a human with reasoning and logic. Haven't looked back since :)

    There aren't many conservatives in college tho. The only ones I've met are my friends.
     
  5. RS14

    RS14 Member

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    We do. Some of us are even liberal ourselves.

    There are a great many issues I care about and I'm not about to abandon all the rest just because I happen to believe in the right to defend oneself.

    drjoker, congratulations on your success. The CHL statistics are useful, but I suspect that your friend will ultimately have the most impact with her other friends. I don't expect many people to vote only around 2nd Amendment issues, but she may at least convince others that self defense is compatible with other liberal causes, and thus aid those rare Democrats who don't support gun control. The best thing that could happen for the 2nd Amendment would not be an overwhelming victory for any single party, but acceptance of it by Americans of all political stripes.
     
  6. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    DrJoker is doing it right!

    You can wins hearts and minds . . . one heart and one mind at a time.

    There's a group of users on dailykos.com who are out to prove that you can be liberal/progressive AND a big 2A supporter.

    They're attempting to post a new diary every Tuesday. You can search for it right here (or just go to www.dailykos.com/search and put RKBA in the search field "stories and diaries"). Forward this link to any liberal friends you have who don't support RKBA.
     
  7. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Member

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    RS14 is also doing it right!

    We need to redefine our tent as "RKBA Supporters" rather than DEMs v. GOP, red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative.
     
  8. android

    android Member

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    The Texas Dept of Public Safety, which has "no flexibility or discretion"* in enforcing the law when someone is doing 5mph over the speed limit seems to have no respect whatsoever for the process deadlines imposed by the Texas state legislature with regards to CHL processing.

    *Troopers exact words to a friend of mine that got pulled over for 75mph in a 70 zone and she asked about a warning ticket.
     
  9. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    I've always defined my support this way, no matter which way I leaned growing up. But I grew up with guns in the house and we shot them often as teens. Unsupervised even.. The best way to "redefine" that house is to build it thorugh the youth and others.

    I have a couple liberal friends sold on the "yeah, we are free because of guns aren't we." And I'm in Portland, OR, liberal is the landscape and yet many embrace the intrinsical freedoms firearms provide against tyranny and oppression.
     
  10. sig220mw

    sig220mw Member

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    What Kenpo said
     
  11. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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    amen
     
  12. dkk73

    dkk73 Member

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    Yeah, mush in the head doesn't seemed to be aligned with any particular political self-identification.

    And I look inside a lot of heads.

    Although, I will say that more mush does seem to be associated with louder, simpler political ideologies. So that may be a warning sign that your attempts at conversion to RKBA are unlikely to succeed for a given individual. ;)

    More thoughtful, polite people of any stripe seem to be most receptive, in my experience.

    As I read firearms-enthusiast and RKBA sites on the web, I am beginning to think I would settle for our movement simply not actively pissing off more undecided people via gratuitous insults.
     
  13. def

    def Member

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    I think the word "converting" is a terrible way to approach to defending and promoting what you believe about gun rights. On both the left and the right, people become married to what their "side" says about gun rights (and every other political issue), then spews out rhetoric just to antagonize the other side. Sadly, it isn't very often that people sit down to really discuss--with an open mind--the issues, gun rights included. Further, keep in mind that the USA is a BIG, heterogeneous country and, as a whole, we will never fully agree on a stance on the issues. The least we can do is understand and appreciate the other side. I've got friends to the right and left of me. Again, I don't like the idea of "converting" people, but I have affected some of theirs views, as others have affected mine.

    Also, well said, RS14. Most people view me as liberal because of my economic views, but I'm very libertarian (to me, the term "conservative" has been bastardized because it now seems to mean "small government... except for what the republican party wants it to be big for") in a civil and citizen rights sense, so I can empathize with you. I think it's a travesty that many on the left can be so staunchly anti-gun rights without really understanding the issue. It's nice to see another liberal who believes in the right to defend oneself.
     
  14. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    I just take them shooting.Done.Yer welcome.
     
  15. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I have liberal friends. All of them are at a loss when I ask them to tell me how they reconcile being pro-fun with voting habits that are anything but.
     
  16. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

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  17. Pileatus

    Pileatus Member

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    Mushy heads are not unique to any political party, there are plenty of them on both sides of the aisle; with regard to guns, you either support RKBA or you don't. As someone said earlier, what needs to be done is acceptance of the 2nd amendment as a whole and not among party lines. I myself am on the liberal side of the liberal-conservative divide and am a proud gun owner and 2nd amendment supporter. The two concepts need not be mutually exclusive...just do a search for the dictionary definition of liberalism.

    Contrary to popular belief, "Obama voting flaming liberals" don't have horns and forked tails, and some of them are perfectly fine with supporting the 2nd amendment, and not merely in passing. Trying to win people over to our side is fine, but don't set it up as republicans vs democrats. It won't work (people clam up real fast when political parties are involved) and it's an inaccurate characterization. Both sides have members who are pro, and both have their antis. A logical well-thought out argument that sticks to RKBA issues stays away from blanket statements regarding politics will go much further than the typical "if you vote such and such a way, you're an idiot" stuff you see on the news programs. This poster said it rather well: "We need to redefine our tent as "RKBA Supporters" rather than DEMs v. GOP, red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative. "
     
  18. KJS

    KJS Member

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    Actually, that was the subject of an editorial I got published last month in a self-described "progressive" paper, which means leans so far to the left we're shocked they don't tip over. My published editorial:

     
  19. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Actually, we just have to get them to take less interest in voting. That's how they won in 2008.

    If someone can't be convinced, then don't piss him/her off. That will just make him/her go and vote (liberal demographics are also low-turnout demographics, most of the time).
     
  20. atlanticfire

    atlanticfire Member

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    I was able to convert my in-laws. Not having much luck with the rest of the family though. All my side is cons.
     
  21. dogngun

    dogngun Member

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    IO am way beone a "liberal", and I have been working

    against the idea that "gun control" should be a Democratic program for several years. It seems the gun control organizations like to claim they have a lot more "liberal" support than they really have. In fact one of them just went belly-up a few days ago due to lack of support. Most of the left wing dems I know own guns and manycarry them. I have had a license to carry for over 15 years now, and as I say I am way to the left of any "liberal".
    (Most folks I know online, including me, think Obama is way too conservative.)
    The democratic Party is backing off the whole "gun control" theme - the GOP victory in Jersey really put the icing on the cake - Corzine supported gun control, and he lost.
    No one is out to confiscate any guns - we own them, too.

    Mark
    Former Sp4, 1/504 PIR
    Shooter for over 50 years
     
  22. Philo_Beddoe

    Philo_Beddoe Member

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    Despite all this rhetoric about how "we" lost this election no serious attempt at gun control has come from congress or the executive branch.

    I personally am not to worried.

    It appears the democrats did learn something from 1994.
     
  23. NinjaFeint

    NinjaFeint Member

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    So if I voted for Obama and a bunch of Republicans and a few Democrats on our state ticket, what does that make me? Do I need to be converted to being a die hard conservative? Am I moving from the center to the left with frightening speed?

    Maybe I just don't vote on one issue only. I love my guns but I have to consider more in a national election. I also hate the assertion that us northern city folk aren't as American as small town people from the mid-west or wherever but that is a different argument for a different day.
     
  24. Lou McGopher

    Lou McGopher Member

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    xxxx
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  25. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    Showing the sheeple how useful guns can actually be to their well being is one of the most effective ways to enlighten them.
     
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