Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

how to fire-form .32-40 brass ?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by jbrown_14105, Mar 27, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    Folks,
    I have been trying to work 30-30 brass into .32-40 (I seen in previous threads) with poor results. The 1894 lever action will not close...I figure it is the wider base of the 30-30.
    So is there a way to make .32-40 brass "cheaper" than the high price tag of the cowboy action shooter price?
     
  2. GCBurner

    GCBurner Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,853
  3. PRD1

    PRD1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    S.E. Arizona
    Alternatively...

    and assuming you already have .32-40 reloading dies, you could simply re-size the .30-30 case in your .32-40 die to reduce the body and shoulder to proper diameters and then fire-form.
    The formed cases will still be somewhat short - correct .32-40 brass of full length (2.125") to begin with will work best.
    PRD1 - mhb - Mike
     
  4. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    Guys, I have the dies from RCBS for .32-40, (catalog 32501) and have reworked 30-30 WCF brass, the taper is correct but the brass base is too "wide" to fully close the action in my 1894.
    I am considering purchasing the RCBS "cowboy" action shooting dies for .32-40 since it is a 3 die set.

    Yes I know I can buy "new" (they are on back-order) but you see, it's the "challenge" to learn what I am doing wrong.....
    God Bless You folks this Easter Sunday
    Jim Brown
     
  5. PRD1

    PRD1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    S.E. Arizona
    I'm still not sure...

    how the base of your .30-30 brass is 'too wide' to chamber in your rifle.
    As a check, I measured .32-40 and .30-30 cases to see how they compare - the results are:

    Winchester .32-40 cases (fired):
    Rim diameter - .490"
    Rim thickness - .060"
    Head diameter (just ahead of the rim) - .414"

    Remington factory .32-40 (fairly old)
    Rim diameter - .499"
    Rim thickness - .057"
    Head diameter - .416"

    Winchester .30-30 (new brass)
    Rim diameter - .499"
    Rim thickness - .058"
    Head diameter - .416"

    All these are well within the factory standards for both of these cartridges, and, in a correctly dimensioned .32-40 chamber, should not prevent chambering of a full-length sized case, even one made from .30-30 brass.

    So, you have a puzzlement. Does your 1894 have an original factory barrel, and will it chamber a factory .32-40 round?
    PRD1 - mhb - Mike
     
  6. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    original .32-40 gun

    Hello,
    It is a original .32-40 (barrel) and it will chamber & fire "old" .32-40 rounds.
    W.R.A.Co, Western, Dominion, Imperial, are all names that chamber fine.
    All measure at the base against the rim .410
    my .30-30 Super X measures .4175
    .30-30 rim diameter is .525 (using a analog dial) .32-40 is rim .50
    So there is the "figures" so far, I am gonna pull a unfired .30-30 and try to re-size with a RCBS tight locked-down sizing die.
    Thanks for the reply.
    Jim Brown
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  7. PRD1

    PRD1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    S.E. Arizona
    Well...

    The obvious thing (to me) is that the rim diameter you state for the .30-30is way too large. Enough so that the rim would not likely enter the bolt face recess - which seems the likely cause of your difficulty.

    I checked my measurements again with my best B&S 1" micrometer, and they were exactly the same as I originally got with my old Mitutoyo dial caliper.

    My old and very old reloading manuals state the (maximum permissible) dimensions of the .32-40 case as:
    Rim diameter: .506"
    Head/base diameter: .424"
    Rim thickness: not stated; should be ca. .060"

    And of the .30-30 case:
    Rim diameter: .502"
    Head/base diameter: .4215"
    Rim thickness : (same as above)

    So, on this basis, the .30-30 should be somewhat smaller at the critical points, if held within the maximum permissible range.

    My .32-40 is an original Highwall, and, while I have not tried the .30-30 brass in it (don't need to), I don't think there is any dimension in the .30-30 cases I have that would prevent chambering, if properly sized in the .32-40 die.
    Sounds like you have a batch of odd .30-30 brass, which might well cause problems in an actual .30-30.

    PRD1 - mhb - Mike
     
  8. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    22,855
    Agree
    You can't assume that the brass is right.
    My .44-40s don't do well with RP, it is tight in the 92 and impossible in the SA.
    WW is best, Starline is ok.

    Try a different batch of .30-30.
     
  9. JT-AR-MG42

    JT-AR-MG42 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    355
    jb,

    I think you will have success with the new brass. The problem is maybe the expansion-from having been fired-on the base of the case.

    I made a batch of .25-35s from fired 30-30 cases with no luck chambering. Too cheap to use new cases when I have piles of 30-30 around.

    Since I had not loaded or primed them, I re-applied the Imperial to the base and used a piece of flat steel over the Rockchucker ram to press the formed 25-35 case into the stripped 30-30 die all the way to the rim.
    This process removed the expansion belt from the case.
    A steel rod was used to tap them out and then all chambered fine.

    For the .32-40, I guess I would try sizing a few of the bases of the 30-30 in its own die before re-forming it to .32.
    If you had a spare 30-30 sizing die around, you could cut the top half off to keep from having to set the shoulder back needlessly with the subsequent extra effort to tap them out.
    Keep them lubed.

    My experience, JT
     
  10. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    Gentlemen,
    I need to keep this thread going....thank-You.
    I appreciate all of the last 2-3 posts, and I am working on ideas that you folks wrote. The brass does seem to be"flowing" toward the base and thickening base just above the rim by a .010 or a .012
    I also am gonna purchase a "general" slide micrometer and cut the larger blades off so I can measure the "throat" of the breech, since the slide action doesn't allow me to get them in straight & correct, this is only a few bucks for expense, and a nice "custom" tool for future use.
    The .30-30 bullet will be grabbed by the ejector of the rifle, even though the action will not fully lock-up and close, I can eject the brass.
    Thanks, I'll let you know is a day or two.
     
  11. bubba15301

    bubba15301 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    378
    Location:
    pa
    need to form the cases from new 30/30 brass.if you cant get 30/30 try 25/35 cases
     
  12. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    25/35 cases

    Thanks,
    I'll also purchase some new .30-30 cases as well as a few 25-35 cases just to try......
     
  13. PRD1

    PRD1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    S.E. Arizona
    Before you buy anything else...

    you need to be sure exactly what you are trying to fix. Although all the proper dimensions of the various cases have been discussed, and you have apparently measured those dimensions on the .30-30 cases you want to use, you have still not determined (or said) exactly what dimension on your sized .30-30 brass is preventing the cases from chambering fully.
    The only dimension you have reported which would likely prevent the proper function of the rifle is the too large rim diameter. That, in itself, would not prevent the round from fully entering the chamber, but would prevent the bolt from closing because the rim would not likely enter the bolt face recess.
    The chamber itself is a useable cartridge gauge: you should be able to drop the round into the chamber and see that it is (or is not) fully seated. If it is, the only remaining dimensions which might cause the bolt to refuse to close are the rim thickness (apparently not a problem), and its diameter.
    You have already said that the rifle will accept and function with factory
    .32-40 loaded rounds, which demonstrates that the chamber is not likely at fault, leaving some dimension of the cartridge case itself as the remaining difficulty - and the rim diameter may well be the source of the problem. It is easy enough to check, and should be eliminated before spending any more money on brass.
    PRD1 - mhb - Mike
     
  14. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    the cartridge near the base is a bit fat

    The .30-30 case that I have been trying to resize into .32-40 seems have the brass flow abit down near the base of the brass.
    The diameter is a bit too large only near the base about a 1/8 of an inch measuring from the rim.
    The rim measure is fine, when I take the reformed brass casing and try to manually push it into the chamber it "sticks" near the base, the rim never makes it to the base of the breech.
    I will try to take a picture of two to try to explain it better.
     
  15. JT-AR-MG42

    JT-AR-MG42 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    355
    jbrown,

    Correct. It is not a flow of brass, it is the normal process of a case having been fired.
    Any 30-30 fired in a rear locking 94 action bulges the brass slightly right above the rim. The shiny area. That is called the expansion belt or ring and is normal with the springy rear locking action. That (and the thinner brass) is why the 30-30 is loaded to 42,000 rather than a bolt cartridge with pressures to 62,000.

    When using that same case to make a case of greater taper, that ring will have to be reduced to new brass dimensions. That is why I suggested earlier that if you were forming cases using fired 30-30s that you would need to size the base of the case to completely remove this expansion.

    JT
     
  16. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    sizing the "base"

    And that 's the problem I am having, my RCBS set of .32-40 will not size right down to the base, the "seat" doesn't allow it to fully press onto the base right down to the base of the flang/rim.
    That is why I am ordering the .32-40 Cowboy Action set from RCBS that is made for older guns.
    Worst case scenario is I will set the die up with out a "seat and press it fully into the die, then maybe have to "punch it out.

    Well worth looking into I guess.
     
  17. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    picking up .30-30 brass (hopefully)

    Well guys I am awaiting delivery in my local shop of .30-30 clean new factory brass to try this thread out of re-sizing clean NON-fire-forms .30-30 brass.
    I'll let you all know.
    Jim Brown
     
  18. jbrown_14105

    jbrown_14105 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Lockport NY
    New Brass didn't make a.......

    Well folks,
    Brand new Hornady 30-30 brass didn't make it either in my .32-40 dies trying to form .32-40 but I found specialty RCBS dies to convert 30-30 brass to .32-40 brass. I am awaiting the order to come in from RCBS.
    I'll let yo all know how it turns out!
    Jim Brown
    'Lockport NY
     
  19. homatok

    homatok Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    333
    Nonte’s book “the home guide to Cartridge Conversions” says to use 38/55 brass to form 32/40s. Full length size in 32-40 die; rim may require 0.010” reduction in diameter. Dimensions to shoot for; Rim dia; 0.489”, Head dia, 0.418”, Rim thickness; 0.063”, Neck dia; 0.339”, Case length, 2.125”.

    Nonte says 30-30 brass can be used by sizing full length, but cases will be about 0.10” short.

    Same book gives 30-30 measurements as: rim dia; 0.497”, head dia; 0.418”, rim thickness 0.62”, case length 2.044”. This section suggests that 32/40 can be made by trimming to length and fire-forming.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page