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How to ship firearms

Discussion in 'Legal' started by dogtown tom, Mar 21, 2012.

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  1. salmonfisherman

    salmonfisherman Member

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    from the sound of things it is illegal to ship my AR rifle to myself in another state.
     
  2. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Not illegal at all. Just against UPS and FEDEX company policy. Since an AR-15 is still considered to be just an ordinary rifle by the US Post Office, you can mail it to yourself, in care of another person, in another state via US Postal Service so long as the rifle is still legal to possess in the destination state.
     
  3. JRWhit

    JRWhit Member

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    As a soon to be new guy to the dealers club. Are there any other requirements when a firearm is sold via internet, and then shipped to an ffl.
    If i got this right, after verifying the other dealers ffl, I ship to them enclosing a copy of DL or FFL copy. What records are required from my end. Info on the FFL shipped to only, or also info on the actual purchaser of the firearm?
    Is there any sort of transfer form when shipping to the FFL from an FFL?
     
  4. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    If you ship a handgun via USPS you are required to submit a USPS Form 1508 to the post office.


    If you are a dealer it is a long standing courtesy to include a copy of your FFL with the shipment. Many dealers ask for nonlicensees to include a copy of their DL.


    You record the disposition in your bound book.


    The bound book only cares about disposition to licensees (you'll get a copy of their FFL) or to nonlicensees (they'll complete a 4473).

    When I ship to the buyer, the box is addressed to the receiving dealer and the buyers name and phone# is included.



    No.
    Most will include an invoice or packing slip.
     
  5. PowerShot

    PowerShot Member

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    So I just received by UPS some mail-order ammo from a place in South Carolina, and it came in a box with these markings (photo attached):

    Basically, a large black and white diamond sticker with another label-sticker underneath that reads

    UN 0012
    SMALL ARMS
    AMMUNITION
    INERT PROJECTILE

    .. and also printed underneath that, onto the cardboard, the phrase "UN IDENTIFICATION NUMBER".

    Does the "UN" refer to United Nations, meaning its proper for me to be sitting here with my mouth hanging open, or is it something else?
     

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  6. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Yes, it means United Nations Identification Number. Why should your mouth be hanging open? It's a new labeling system that has been agreed upon by all the member nations for hazardous materials so that every country can recognize the markings. It standardizes everything from compressed gasses, toxic materials, explosives, radiation hazards, etc.

    The UN Identification Number is the specific item being shipped, in this case small arms ammunition.

    This system replaces the ORM-D markings that used to be United States specific.
     
  7. PowerShot

    PowerShot Member

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    Mouth hanging open because ...

    1) The ammunition shipment was internal to the United States (not international)

    2) Numerous other shipments this year from other suppliers had no such UN markings.

    3) Most importantly, the UN is intractably corrupt and openly hostile to human liberty and the US constitution. That they are allowed to have any part in defining how ammunition is transported within the United States is an obvious foot-hold for control.

    Changing stickers and labels is useless, but does serve to propagandize the population to the idea that the UN somehow has a legitimate role in ammunition distribution (hence control), as a sort of advertising.

    Was my ammunition purchase reported and logged in a United Nations database? No way to know. No redress since they are unelected and unaccountable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  8. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    The US is simply adopting internationally recognized labelling for hazardous materials so that when we receive hazardous materials shipments from other countries also agreeing to the labeling scheme, firefighters and other emergency personnel have a greater chance of know what that shipment that is on fire on the interstate contains regardless of what country it came from.

    Earlier this year the new international markings were optional. Either now, or in the near future, they become our mandatory standard.

    I tend to agree with the first sentence. The second sentence is nothing more than conspiracy theory with very little support to it.

    Changing stickers and labels serves a very real purpose. It reduces cost, for one thing. An international shipment received into the US or transported outside the US will no longer have to be relabelled to meet the new country of destination's standards because they will likely be the same. It also reduces the chances of mislabelling. You may think it is useless until water is used to extinguish a fire which causes an explosion because the shipment contained a water reactive material that was either mislabelled or the firefighters could not understand the non-standard labelling.

    The new hazardous material marking requirements in no way, shape or form has any affect on this consipracy theory.
     
  9. PowerShot

    PowerShot Member

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    The shipments are internal to the US, not international. Do other countries in fact label it the same way as per the United Nations?

    How many water reactive shipments have caught fire because firefighters couldn't read the label? Ammunition is not such a substance. What hazard is there in a box of ammunition that warrants special attention? The flammable gunpowder is individually wrapped about as securely as one could imagine, small amounts each separately sealed in brute-tough little containers. I bet a bottle of mouthwash is more likely to burn.

    Calling something a conspiracy theory doesn't affect its truth or falsity. Curious thing to say given the UN's history of disarming populations, attempting to disarm populations, and discussing how best to disarm populations.

    At least we agree the UN is intractably corrupt and hostile to human liberty and the US Constitution -- things that point away from conspiracy to disarm popu ... oh, wait ...

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/09/27/what-the-united-nations-arms-trade-treaty-means-to-you/

    Still don't know if mail order ammunition is being reported to a UN database, if not by sellers, by the shippers. US Post Office photographs each piece of mail and retains the record, the question is where else does the information go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
  10. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    As a former HazMat shipping specialist ....

    The lessons learned that put the HazMat regs we have in place today were paid for in blood. They are not there because some pencil neck government official had nothing better to do that afternoon.

    Ammunition is NOT sent via the mail, so there is nothing for the Post Office to photograph.

    And please cite where you learn that all common carriers, including FedEx, UPS and USPS photograph every thing they ship and store it in some database somewhere? I must have missed that class.
     
  11. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    I must agree with PowerShot on this one. The USA should not be adapting ANYTHING the UN proposes within our own borders. I very much dislike the UN labels if for no other reason than the propagandizing effect PS referred to. Shipments across borders, yeah okay. Within our own borders, stop meddling with US.

    One tiny scratch can lead to horrible infection...
     
  12. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Absolutely! Stay out of domestic American matters.
    Ditto!
     
  13. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Oh good grief.
    The amount of paranoid stupidity in this thread is mind numbing.


    :banghead:
     
  14. medalguy
    • Contributing Member

    medalguy Member

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    To slightly change the direction of this thread, guys, remember that FedEx EXPRESS is a separate company with different regulations and tariffs than FexEx GROUND/HOME service. They share very little except the FedEx name.

    There, fixed it Tom. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  15. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    :scrutiny:
     
  16. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Sorry but I don't equate a legitimate concern for the loss of national sovereignty to any international entity with "paranoid stupidity".
     
  17. dceagle

    dceagle Member

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    Shipping to self from California

    I have a second home in California, where I lawfully own a shotgun and a handgun. I am selling the California house and need to ship both shotgun and handgun to myself at my home in Virginia. I have read most of the posts on this thread and it appears I can ship shotgun to myself through USPS without making any declarations, but I will want insurance--do I have to declare firearm for insurance purposes to USPS--if not what do I declare for insurance purposes?

    Also it appears that I can ship handgun through either UPS or FEDEX to myself in care of another, with adult signature required, as long as I declare to either UPS or FEDEX that I am shipping a firearm? Is that correct? Does anyone know if California law places any additional limits on my ability to ship the handgun to myself in Virginia through either UPS or FEDEX?

    I do not have any Federal Firearm license.

    Thanks for assistance.
     
  18. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Pay and print your shipping label online at usps.com If you try and do it at the counter expect a hassle.



    While Federal law allows you to do this, UPS and FedEx have changed their policies and will no longer accept nonlicensee to nolicensee shipments.
    If you try and do so without telling UPS/FedEx you violate Federal law for failing to notify the carrier of an interstate shipment to a nonlicensee.






    I would worry more about Federal law being violated in California.....ship to a VA dealer and transfer it via 4473.
     
  19. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Or bring it with you when you return to VA
     
  20. stringed

    stringed Member

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    Re shipping handgun via FedEx

    Dogtown Tom,

    Maybe their regulations have changed, but FedEx does not now allow individuals to ship firearms to themselves or other unlicensed individuals. Only to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers. On their website is states

    FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
    Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
    Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).​
     
  21. ScottS

    ScottS Member

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    Yet another use for a C&R FFL.
     
  22. perpster

    perpster Member

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    Shipping Firearm Magazines: Restrictions?

    Want to send unloaded firearm magazines (pistol and/or rifle) from one US state to another US state. They are of legal number-of-rounds-capacity in both states. Neither sender nor receiver (the shippee, not the firearm part) are FFL.

    Can this be done via US Postal Service? Common Carrier? Any particular rules, declarations, etc.?


    If same scenario as above, but I want to ship them to myself in another state (in which I do not reside but will be visiting for lawful shooting purposes), can this be done via US Postal Service? Common Carrier? Does it matter, or is it preferable, to address them to myself at the other state address (at which I do not reside but will be visiting), or to myself "care of" someone who resides at that other state address? Any particular rules, declarations, etc.?

    One question in addition to the above: If I send to myself, not "care-of", and want proof of delivery (such as Delivery Confirmation if use USPS Priority Mail), how would that work -- who could sign for delivery addressed to me if I'm not there? Does it work like any non-firearms-related shipment, in that anyone present can sign for it?

    Thanks. Searched threads for this but did not find.
     
  23. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    No restrictions on mailing empty magazines at all. If you did happen to send them to a state where their possession is illegal, you could possibly be charged by that state (and you would have to be extradited) with conspiring with the recipient to enable them to commit a crime.

    No different then sending a replacement screw - just because it is intended for use in a firearm.
     
  24. PowerShot

    PowerShot Member

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    If the USPS is organized enough to do it …

    US Postal Service Logging All Mail for Law Enforcement (NY Times, 2013-Jul-3):

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mail.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    "… Mr. Pickering was targeted by a longtime surveillance system called mail covers, a forerunner of a vastly more expansive effort, the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States — about 160 billion pieces last year. It is not known how long the government saves the images.

    Together, the two programs show that postal mail is subject to the same kind of scrutiny that the National Security Agency has given to telephone calls and e-mail …"
     
  25. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    I tend to agree with these types of posts. I don't like "other nations" having anything to do with "USA internal affairs" when they have nothing to do with "international affairs". We have enough interference from "our own" government, thank you very much. "Economic globalization" is one thing and "NWO" is quite another... or is it? Yeah, okay... never mind.
     
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