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How would a LEO or BATF guy check compliance parts in my AK?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by WinchesterAA, Jan 14, 2007.

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  1. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Member

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    There's absolutely nothing inside of my AK that says anything about USA.. or much of anything else for that matter (bolt has numbers on it..)

    When I bought it I assumed it was legal as I bought it from a gunshop. So I dunno, I was just curious as to what was and wasn't made in USA on my WASR-10, and realized pretty quickly that I couldn't tell which was which.
     
  2. Outlander1

    Outlander1 member

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    First you get thrown in jail for awhile . then they send the gun to their "experts " then you spend the rest of your life in jail .:neener:

    Dont worry about it , keep the rec. .
     
  3. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Ah, but can you prove they are US parts. Guilty until proven innocent is the order of the day after all. :D
     
  4. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    If the gun is unmodified by you, it should be legal. It should have import markings.

    The problem would come I guess when you buy an unmodified WASR and modify it to take high cap mags yourself. You might then be required to replace a bunch of the parts with US made parts to stay legal. Find out which is the case if you can. Check the import markings and maybe you can find out from the importer.
     
  5. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    Most US-made compliance parts are actually stamped US or USA somewhere on 'em. All of the TAPCO parts, for example are so marked. Oh, and all of the CAI builds (WASRs and SARs) are compliant at the time of manufacture.
     
  6. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    You can have a few imported parts in your gun I think.

    Forget the number.
     
  7. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Member

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    my WASR took high caps out of the box. All I did to it was replace various things with stuff that's made in the USA so parts count shouldn't have changed assuming it was compliant in the first place.
     
  8. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much as that's the way it came from the gun store.
     
  9. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Member

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    Yeah, I'm not worried really.. I was just curious cuz there's absolutely nothing that would indicate to me that anything on my AK besides the stuff I just put on it was made in USA.. no indication where any of the stuff in it was made at all..

    so, I was wondering what tools are used to determine what's made where? Is there a certain styling of bolts/bolt carriers/trigger groups that differ from places made elsewhere? Or could I throw in a bunch of stuff made from wherever and nobodied know the difference?
     
  10. The Amigo

    The Amigo Member

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    Full auto

    As an LEO all we check is if a weapon is single action (shoots one round at a time) VS full auto (shoots many rounds with only one pull of the trigger) you can have parts made in Mars or Jupiter and your gun would be legal as long as its not full auto. There's a operational field test that will tell you without disassembling or reading parts. Hope this helps:)
     
  11. musher

    musher Member

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    Amigo,

    If your test involves checking for hammer fall when the trigger is held back and the action is cycled, you might want to read a bit on the FAL, or get ahold of one and check it out on the range.

    With the standard safety/selector in FA position, the hammer will follow the bolt down, but the rifle will not run full auto unless the auto sear is installed.

    Hate to have someone take an unnecessary ride.
     
  12. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    How hard would it be for a domestic source to make an entirely US built semi-automatic AKM pattern rifle? If you have seen the parts kits available, I bet it wouldn't be that hard...
     
  13. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    Like the bit on the FAL--that's true. Had a firend with one with a (not live) selector on it. Someone asked at the range 'what does that do?' He says--real deadpan--'full auto'. You could have heard a pin drop.
     
  14. gm

    gm Member

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    As was mentioned earlier, the problem starts when people buy the low cap model and grind out the magwell to accept the standard model mags without replacing the furniture and the other stuff with us compliant parts.They sell it and a busybody confiscates it somewhere later on.Not a spot I'd want to be in explaining it.The parts will be stamped made in US or just "US" but something to that effect.There are copies of the same foreign made furniture made here too.


    It would be very easy to make one entirely in the US.There are presently many companies that make the stamped receivers along with all the other parts.Im not sure they would be as cheap as their foreign counterparts but can be as good or better. The latest ban on import barrels would probably make the barrel itself the most costly to make.


    The fal has to have the safety sear installed.The FA selector only allows the hammer to fall but doesnt delay its fall,which is why it doesnt function without it.That and a few other things.A FA safety selector basically makes the setting a single shot.
     
  15. jnojr

    jnojr Member

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    The only way you'd need to worry about this would be if you came under the glaring eye of the ATF for some reason. If you lipped off to them, or they thought you were some kind of 'threat", no doubt they'd send your guns off to test parts, and probably swap a few out to make sure you're in violation.

    However, I can't picture any prosecutor actually trying a case like this... if all they had was the 922(o) violation, I can't see the AUSA standing up and saying, "Ladies and gentleman of the jury, the government will prove today that the defendant had too many parts in his otherwise-legal rifle that were made in a foreign country, and for that offense we will ask you to return a verdict of guilty and a sentence of 10 years in a Federal penitentiary..." Any jury without an axe to grind would deliberate for five minutes on that.
     
  16. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Another example of the convoluted incomprehensible gun laws that do nothing to stop crime and create a new class of "criminals".

    God help us.
     
  17. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    All you need is for a ticked off neighbor or ex domestic partner to report you to the cops for some imaginary offense.

    After the SWAT team busts down your door and ransacks your house, they will have to find something that you are guilty of :uhoh:
     
  18. yhtomit

    yhtomit Member

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    Question for The Amigo

    The Amigo wrote:

    I've never seen that use of the phrase "single action" -- I'd have used "semi-automatic" instead, so I'm curious whether I've missed out. I think of single action as referring to a trigger system in which pulling the trigger causes the hammer / striker to move, but which does not by itself cock the hammer.

    Do your training materials (or something else) use "single action" to describe this situation? I don't mean to put too much importance on the semantics, because in the absence of a convention, "single action" really seems as sensible a descriptor as "semi-automatic (each of these is a term of art), but I'm curious.

    timothy
     
  19. Ian

    Ian Member

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    I notice that nobody has been able to answer the original question yet...

    If, let us say, I want to buy a used Romanian AK from a private party, and find it build with unmarked parts, how can the Feds prove they're foreign? Or if the Feds say there aren't enough American parts, how can I prove otherwise? Doesn't seem to me there is any way to prove it either way, which leaves it as your word (as a suspected/assumed felon with an assault weapon) against the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives' expert's word. And you can guess who the jury (if you even have the money to get a jury trial) will believe...:uhoh:
     
  20. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Somewhere on the BATF website it says that the imported parts violation can only be prosecuted if you assembled the rifle yourself. You can be in possession of an illegal rifle that you bought, but if it is in your possession unknowingly, you cannot be charged, though the rifle can be confiscated as contraband.

    Also, not all USA made parts are stamped "MADE IN USA". Older ones usually are not, newer ones are. Most imported wood doesn't say "made in Romania" and you can't tell imported from USA made either. In short, you can't always tell what is made where on what rifle and most likely, neither can the BATF. For some reason, everyone thinks it taboo to mention this. To reiterate, it's basically a matter of marked parts, personal conscience, and attitude if your rifle is confiscated and "checked". The worst case scenario, if you are not the builder of the rifle, is that they confiscate it, which if they are checking it, the afforementioned has already happened.
     
  21. model 649

    model 649 Member

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    If what the Prince posted is correct, this is a very interesting rule. If the feds want the gun, they simply confiscate it as "contraband". No recourse. You eat it without sustaining any charges. Where do I sign up?
    Josh
     
  22. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    That's probably because there isn't a definite answer, just like there isn't a definite answer to the question "how many guns per year can you sell without having to have an FFL?" :rolleyes:
     
  23. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Does anyone have a cite for anyone, ever, being prosecuted for just a 922R violation?
     
  24. localFFL

    localFFL member

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    The one thing being left out here, is that 922r is an IMPORT regulation. Once it's imported, it ceases to have jurisdiction. If the feds tried to prosecute someone, they would hope you didn't know this and they would probably get away with convicting someone who didn't realize they were being treated as if they were someone who brought the gun into the country and "assembled" a "non sporting rifle" (terms in quotes have specific legal meaning within this particular section of code). THAT'S what 922r covers: the assembly of "non sporting rifles" with respect to importation. Most people either don't know, or forget that importers are actually allowed to import "non sporting rifles" temporarily so they can change them to "sporting configuration." EVEN though those rifles have been imported (using the ordinary sense of the word not the legal sense), customs gives them a temporary legal designation of not ACTUALLY being "imported" yet. Thus, we see there is a clear legal change of jurisdiction going on here. When they haven't been "imported" yet (even though they're sitting in an importer's warehouse in some state, we'll say Florida), those rifles are actually under federal jurisdiction. Once they are retrofitted by the importer into "sporting" configuration, and pass to normal inventory, they are now "imported" and are past federal jurisdiction. Past this point, 922r has no jurisdiction. All these people stressing about "parts count, parts count, parts count" are complying with a section of code as if they were the importer when they are not. Once something has been imported, import regulations such as 922r don't recognize it's existence. Once something has been imported, import regulations view the item imported, and your neighbor's front lawn the SAME, i.e. it doesn't view them at all.

    The feds take advantage all the time of people's ignorant and false legal assumption that "once in federal jurisdiction, ALWAYS in federal jurisdiction." If you plead guilty or plea bargain a 922r issue as a non importer, you're essentially declaring yourself to be an importer as it pertains to THAT charge, and declaring that took imported parts, assembled a "non sporting" firearm, then imported it. The feds as well as local prosecutors absolutely LOVE it when people make such declarations that put them in the code's and the prosecutor's jurisdiction. It makes their job easy and pads their conviction/plea count.
     
  25. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Honest to God it's on the BATF website. I know I read it at ATF.gov, I just can't find the form the second time round :( . But it's in a similar vein as what localFFL says.
     
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