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How would you deal with this "uncovered" undercover gun?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Hokkmike, Sep 8, 2009.

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  1. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    I know a man who carries in church. I don't think it is necessary but have no problem if somebody wants to do it. Not that it would matter if I had a "problem" with it anyway.

    But, on more than one occasion because of how he positions his holster, clothing choice, etc., various members of the congregation have seen the weapon. Most don't seem to care some are a little scared.

    So, here is my question. As a part of leadership (in the church) or just as a fellow CWP owner should I let on to this gentleman that his piece is showing from time to time inferring that perhaps he needs to make some adjustment in his mode of carry?

    Or, is it, none of my business?

    What say you?
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    If you are part of the church leadership, then yes, this would be appropriate for you to handle.

    I would take a moment to speak to him in private and simply discuss it with him.

    If he's willing to be more careful not to show it, that's all need be done.

    You might mention that being more discreet would possibly decrease the likelihood that the church will need to make an official policy on the subject.

    A church is going to almost always going to go with whatever policy makes more of the parishoners more comfortable -- and that might not be favorable to his right to carry there...

    -Sam
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  3. 9mm+

    9mm+ Member

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    +1 Sam1911. Discussing this with him using discretion is paramount, and as a church leader, you are obligated to think for the better of your congregation. I don't think this is a big deal, but you don't want it to go unaddressed.
     
  4. Norinco982lover

    Norinco982lover Member

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    I would definitely mention it to him.

    Is open carry legal where you are at? (just curious).

    I carry to church but I wear my XD45C in a supertuck and wear an appropriate cover garment.

    ~Norinco
     
  5. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Throw him a bone and let him know it is a little too obvious. He might want to know, or he might not care at all.

    Those who'd say it is none of your business are partially right, but if he doesn't know that he's getting made so easily, so often, he could use a little heads-up.

    If I was failing to conceal, in such an obvious way, over and over again without knowing it, I'd hope a 'friend' would give me a hint.
     
  6. eatont9999

    eatont9999 Member

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    Ask him what he is carrying. If he does not get it by then, one would assume he does not grasp the concept of CC. Just be polite and gentle. Don't piss him off if you can avoid it. The more people who carry in church, the safer it is...IMO
     
  7. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Be direct and let him know that he isn't being successful in concealing his carry gun.
     
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    He's in PA, so yes. However, if the church happens to institute a "no guns" policy because he makes the others uncomfortable, then it could affect him. He could still carry, legally, but the pastor or other leaders would probably have to ask him to leave in honor of the policy and he'd have to comply or face tresspass charges.

    -Sam
     
  9. danprkr

    danprkr Member

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    Sam1911 - nailed it in my opinion.
     
  10. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    I think Sam is right.

    However, if he's a good member, I'd hate to discourage him from carrying but would encourage him to carry more discretely. There have been shoot-em-ups at churches too and I'd rather have someone who can shoot back than have the congregation slaughtered.
     
  11. el gato

    el gato Member

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    In a friendly, (in case you havent noticed, your ppd is showing). I would suggest he sit in a location that allowed him to observe as many entrance's/exit's as possible.
     
  12. cchris

    cchris Member

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    Interesting. In South Carolina, adult males are still required to bring a rifle to church on Sunday in defense of Native attackers, or something of that sort.
     
  13. content

    content Member

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    Hello friends and neighbors \\ +1 Sam1911

    Perhaps discuss things with Pastor/other church leaders and come to an agreement whether this is innocently being spotted or a mild form of brandishing ( not saying it is). Next time it comes up you are all on the same page when explaining things to spotter. The spotter will be looking for firearm now and word might have spread.

    The Pastor IMHO should be the one to mention something. They normally have a great feel for these things and need to be in the center of the loop. Once spotter knows Pastor is handling situation this should be enough.
     
  14. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    Sorry, I'm a yankee. Is that humor or churches down in SC really have that tradition?

    I know around here the masonic lodges have a man with a sword at the door as part of tradition.
     
  15. Paul82

    Paul82 member

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    House of God. I dont think you should carry to the Church. Leave it in the car or go home and go back out again if you have to go out for something after Church.


    Then again gary made a good points -"However, if he's a good member, I'd hate to discourage him from carrying but would encourage him to carry more discretely. There have been shoot-em-ups at churches too and I'd rather have someone who can shoot back than have the congregation slaughtered"-
     
  16. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    Is this because you think God forbids self defense, churches don't get robbed or because maniacs don't enter churches and start shooting people?

    Just sayin'

    You'd be wrong on all three counts.
     
  17. Paul82

    Paul82 member

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    thats why I said gary has a good idea. I used edit, I forgot to say that.
     
  18. PandaBearBG

    PandaBearBG Member

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    +1 on talking to him discreetly, if you make a big deal it becomes a big deal. He has the right, he goes to church so I assume he is a good upstanding citizen. And +1 on letting the pastor know.
     
  19. catspa

    catspa Member

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    cchris: In South Carolina, adult males are still required to bring a rifle to church on Sunday in defense of Native attackers, or something of that sort.

    I'd start attending church this very Sunday if that was the official policy (haven't been to church in years).

    Parker
     
  20. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    Agreed. 'Murder' is wrong. We all know that. As a responsible gun carrier, you would only use it to save a life or lives. I think God would be on your side.

    That said, that is my interpretation of His word. It isnt everyones'.
     
  21. cchris

    cchris Member

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    It's one of those laws they never bothered to get rid of from long ago, like the ones about not tying giraffes to lamp posts and not bathing donkeys on the second floor of an apartment, etc. But it was gun and church related, and still a bit humorous that it was never repealed.
     
  22. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    The no weapons in churches came about in an attempt to stop brigands from stealing the silver and gold altar plate. I doubt it has any basis in Scripture.
    Discreetly, of course, but also ask him what trianing he has, and would he like to go shooting sometime.
     
  23. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    This is touching on something I wanted to say before. If you could speak to the man very privately, one-on-one, you might diffuse an unfortunate situation.

    You need to get a feel for whether he's completely unaware that he's "printing/showing" or if he's sort of a "casually concealed" type who really doesn't care if the gun shows. Or even the type who sort of wants others to see it, but isn't quite ready for Open Carry (hey, it happens).

    If he's blissfully unaware, he should be quite willing to fix the issue and might even be a bit embarrassed.

    If he falls into the other camp, it may be reasonable to bring a little mild pressure to bear: Telling him that some folks are uncomfortable and would he mind covering up more carefully while he's attending church might do the trick.

    If he seems unresponsive to that concern, then you can up the ante a little. Remind him that all need to feel welcomed in church, and that -- if this situation can't be solved through a simple conversation -- the next step will have to be involving the pastor and other elders in making a decision on the matter. Which could certainly lead to the church considering enacting a policy on firearms on church property. Not that you can say what that policy would entail, exactly, but that it could negatively impact his carry options.

    I'm sure it won't escalate, but some folks are weird, and church relations have gone sour over less significant things before -- many times.

    Whatever you do, approach him as one who understands his views and his choice to go armed. That will give him every excuse to do the right thing without a fuss.

    Good luck!

    -Sam
     
  24. DHJenkins

    DHJenkins Member

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    As part of the church leadership, it is sort of your job to make sure all of the parishioners 'have a good time' at services. If some of them are being put off by someone who can't properly conceal their weapon, you should talk to him about it.

    Just explain that he has a right to do it, but he needs to take into the account the feelings of his fellow churchgoers, which, as a good <insert religion here>, he should have no problem with.

    Let us know how it goes.
     
  25. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    As part of the church leadership, it is sort of your job to make sure all of the parishioners 'have a good time' at services. If some of them are being put off by someone who can't properly conceal their weapon, you should talk to him about it.

    Just explain that he has a right to do it, but he needs to take into the account the feelings of his fellow churchgoers, which, as a good <insert religion here>, he should have no problem with.

    Let us know how it goes.


    Yeah, thanks. At this point I don't plan to do anything.
     
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