How would you handle this?

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My dad has been shooting with me over the past year or two. We have gone to the range to try out a couple of new guns he acquired. I found on more than one occasion, his sweeping me with a 20 gauge shotgun (loaded, finger on trigger, safety off) and a 9mm (finger on trigger, loaded).

I try to calmly state "Watch that muzzle" -- trying to be kind of light-hearted about it. When he said "I'm being careful!" I kindly told him that the gun was loaded and for an instant, was aimed at my stomach. I also said something like "we don't need any accidents here, today!" We were the only two there and the gate was locked behind us. Going to the ER would mean fooling around with unlocking the gate to leave the place! I think 911 would be better and faster, I could start leaving and meet the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

I agree with the gun-safety course, and the Rules of the House! And, what perfect timing, the baby has to be protected at all costs, who could argue THAT?? :D
 
You have to have a talk, and after you have politely stated your concerns with all do respect, it will be up to him to either respect your concerns or expose himself as an even bigger idiot than he is already. Bottom line, the safety of your wife and unborn child come first, forsaking all others.
 
The class is a good idea, and bringing up the discussion afterwards leading with "I didn't know how little I knew about gun safety. I was doing such-and-such wrong" and see where it leads.

Also, there is no substitute for leading by example. Demonstrate the behavior and attitude you want to see by doing it yourself.


But bottom line, set some hard and fast standards. Politely insist that they be observed. If people in your life are unwilling to observe them, make it clear that those people are welcome to do whatever they like when you aren't there. But when in the presence of you and the people you are morally responsible they are not permitted to handle firearms at all until they follow those rules.


The Four Rules of Universal Gun Handling are a good start. They're easy to learn, memorize, put into practice, and make into a habit. They also have the benefit of being respected by disciplines like IDPA and IPSC, who shoot in an action-sport format.
 
Safeties can fail, alway be sure to check first that no round is chambered. I was taught that the best safty is to keep the chamber clear. the mechanical safty is just second reassurance.
 
Safeties can fail, alway be sure to check first that no round is chambered. I was taught that the best safty is to keep the chamber clear. the mechanical safty is just second reassurance.
That is how I handle all of my weapons, it is getting this across to him that is proving difficult.
 
NRA Basic Pistol Course, come to Vermont, I will give you a family discount ....
Follow the three basic rules and give gentle reminders.
 
Talk to him man to man, on the side, away from women, one on one. Tell him that you respect him, but that it is not good safety nor good manners to be that reckless with loaded guns. Oh, he's going to get mad. Then YOU get mad and stand your ground. State your case, and tell him the discussion is over. If he does it again in YOUR house, you'll ask him to leave. If you are at his place, you (& your wife) can walk out. The making up can come later when he calms down and becomes self critical, recognizing that you are right. Tough measures, but necessary.
 
I know you dont want to upset your in-laws so I would try the joking/comments first. You could try the safety course thing, but if he considers himself and "expert" already your probably not going to talk him into going anyhow. I would have had to of said something with the pistol incident after correcting you on not putting the safety on. Do not let it go if the other ideas don't work. Feeling might have have to be hurt in the process but thats better than being injured or killed. Just make sure your wife is on the same page with you about it though. You dont need touble at base camp...:rolleyes:
 
This one, I honestly can't see how it will end without some hurt feelings. There is a confrontation coming. You are right. He is being unsafe. You are correct to be concerned enough to want everyone to be safe. But he considers himself to be your mentor, and probably doesn't believe that you can ever tell him that he is doing something wrong.

You are the one who has to sense the best time to tall him, "Look man, I have some concerns. Some of the things you are doing are unsafe." He may not react well. He might be flippant, and use exaggerated safe practices in the future to mock you. But understand, if he used these unsafe practices on any military, police, or competitive range, he would be told to leave.
 
When I take family/friends to the range, before we even get the guns out of the truck I start off with "look, we're here to have fun but I WILL correct you the first time and I will end our outing the second time there is a safety violation. Don't be offended when I correct you - because it will be very direct and to the point."

They get the point right up front - and when I do (as I almost always have to do) correct them I preface it with "I warned you I would not tolerate a lack of safety but........"

No hurt feelings, just plain straight talk. Fortunately I have not had to end a shooting outing early.
 
An awkward situation to be sure, and I applaud you for trying to take the initiative in the interest of preventing a preventable gun-shot tragedy clearly now in the making.The safety class idea is a good one. Safety when handling any firearm can never be compromised, no matter whose toes get stepped on. Though your father-in-law may have his feelings hurt, printing out this thread and giving it to him or having him read it via the monitor might help change his attitude and let him know how concerned you are about a very serious matter. His unsafe behavior when handling guns has to be addressed, no matter how bitter the pill is to swallow-and the sooner, the better. Biting the bullet now is a far better alternative to the bullet ending up inside a loved one's anatomy later.
 
Rob,I wish you luck.I had the same problem with my FIL,35 years ago.We never were able to solve the problem,and I tried about everything.His standard response was that the army trained him,and that he knew more than me.Muzzle control was his worst problem.I finally had to quit hunting and shooting with him.It cause a few problems for me,at home,until I showed my wife a deer that I shot and explained that few people would survive that kind of trauma.He has passed on,and his daughter and I are still married.I regret the fact that we were not able to share something that we both loved to do,but I might not be here if I had not taken a stand.My wife has hunted with me for several years now,and we raised both of our boys to be safe and respect firearms..I wish you luck,I hope you can resolve these problems. Lightman
 
robmaine, i would suggest you have both your in-laws read all the responses posted here while you explain to them the severity of your dilemma. there are a number of very experienced leos and military types on this forum that would, i'm sure, be glad to back your opinion on this.

the only safety on a weapon is the one between your ears. imop

murf
 
I don't care who the person handling the gun is.It is safety first, if not, the firearm and the person are seperated...No exceptions.
 
The class is the best idea, people get...confortable...complacement....whatever word you want to use if they have been around something for a long time and it forget about the dangers. This is nothing bad about the person it is just human nature...it will happen to all of us from time to time.

I would take the class, tell them that you are trying to practice strict firearm safety and get in the habit for when your new baby comes along as you want to teach him about firearms and being safe around them....and so on.
 
You need to figure out for yourself why you were not willing to say something to him about his blatant neglegence. And just because he is older than you is no excuse. You need to grow your backbone a bit and stand up for yourself, your wife, and your unborn child's safety and well being in ALL situations. Having someone get shot by father-in-law, knowing that you could have prevented it by just speaking up and educating him a bit, will stick with you forever. Don't pass up the opportunity to talk with him. Drop everything you're doing NOW and go get this done. Present him with your observations, concerns, and solutions to the issues. He just might wave a loaded gun at someone else today and the results will be fatal.
 
I must agree with the safety class as well. Even just a basic handgun class will bring out any safety problems (through the instructor).
 
Gun safety is a pet peeve with me. Family or not, if you point a gun at me, you're going to hear from me. I guess there's a nice way to say something, but a few piercing words are far better than piercing bullets. I believe in zero tolerance with gun safety. They'll get over being offended, if they're sensible and worth being around.
 
Maybe ask his daughter to talk to him in private, like, "I haven't told my husband because I don't want him to get upset but you really scared me the other day with that gun Dad. I'm starting a family now, etc, etc, etc." Hopefully, they have a good enough relationship that he won't get all defensive and upset.
 
Had the same problem with my Dad. I cannot count the times I have stared down the barrel of his 12 guage or .270. I'd move the gun for him!, duck, move, or whatever and tell him to stop pointing it at me. He would (seriously) deny he'd even done it.

I just had to stop hunting with him. Sooner or later he was going to kill me.

I've heard him literally cry when talking to my mom about how I don't love him anymore cause I won't hunt or shoot with him.

You have a tough choice to make. Make it and be sure the wife unit knows why and what's up.
 
Maybe ask his daughter to talk to him

This.

I jumped in to say the same thing, and woad_yurt beat me to it.

Of all the people involved here, the one who can talk to him with total impunity is Daddy's little girl. Explain to her how you feel, make her an absolute zealot on gun safety, and turn her loose on dear ol' Dad. Heck, you could even use the situation to get on his good side. For example, after she takes him to task for an infraction, give him a whipped kind of shrug and mutter, "What can we do... I guess she's right, after all. Bless her heart, she really cares about us."

How can he be upset if you're just giving in to his little girl?
 
He probably chastised you about the safety to redeem his embarrassment about being corrected on the loaded gun issue (albeit greatly justified). You probably could have appeased his pride with humility about not setting the safety. You could probably gift him with a CCW class, perhaps him and his wife or yourself. Or you could probably stop associating with him, especially when guns are involved. For us older guys pride is a fearsome thing especially when it involves something like a life long association with guns (don't ask me how I know =o).
 
Someone points a gun at me and they will get an earful. It might piss them off, but it might save someones life later as well.

Same here. Other things can be handled more with more discretion. Humor is good, so is using a question to bring awareness, such as "How do feel about someone handing you a firearm before clearing it?". Then after their reply, you tell them your opinion. Not in a superior way, but informatively. If your F-I-L knows you desire guns to be cleared, odds are he will do it out of respect, even if he doesn't agree. If he was your mentor, it will be tough for him to accept the fact that he is not always correct. Again, asking what is correct may be more diplomatic and may open up more discussion than declaring what is correct. As in, "is this really a magazine or a clip?".
 
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