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How would you have handled this one

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by gym, Oct 1, 2013.

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  1. tepin

    tepin Member

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    Thanks for the link Blue Brick. I actually found the part where Ayoob discusses mobs. HERE <- is the youtube link at the correct timer setting.
     
  2. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    According to the GMA report I heard this morning over 200 911 calls were made about the bike gang driving erratically weaving in and out of traffic and generally terrorizing drivers. I have to wonder why 2 hundred 911 calls about the same thing didn’t generate a quicker police response
     
  3. gym

    gym member

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    These guys look like some kind of Hip Hop, Gang banger types with wheels. Upgraded their skateboards, and spray paint, for Bikes.
    it appears anyone with a Hoodie and a 2 wheeler with an engine attached can play. They should have been dismantled for being a public nuisance to start out with.
    A dozen cops could have just written tickets at such a fast rate that they would have dispersed before this kind of thing escalated.
    Of course it's too late now, but allowing these guys to gather like this is just waiting for something bad to happen.
     
  4. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    This type thing, meaning the motorcycle flash mob gatherings, is a national thing. Been happening in California for a bit. I saw a group of about 30 on 101 about two years ago. Doing wheelies, and stunts on the freeway etc.

    Some are hip hop folks, others not. Mostly they are not gang members.

    It's similar to the roadshows where youth gather to do doughnuts and illegally race. Trouble can happen there.

    tipoc
     
  5. gym

    gym member

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    Again, impound their bikes, for illegal racing, and fine them for a dozen different illegal racing, gathering, creating a public nuisance, endangering, etc. and they will stop. Allowing this to continue is just like allowing gangs to gather and waiting for something to happen, it will. In CA if you don't have wheels, you aren't going anyware.
    It's better to stop this kind of bad behavior before it starts costing lives of innocent soccer moms, and their kids, who panic when they are surrounded by a couple dozen idiots on bikes. It's the same mob mentality that causes riots. Weak minded people always seek out others to provide their strength, like lynch mobs of old.
    Start banning events, and locking them up and it will end.
     
  6. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^^

    Remove "motorcycles" and replace with "Carry of firearms" and you've fallen into the same trap as the antis.


    Willie

    .
     
  7. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    It appears to me that it was a group of thugs on motorcycles who attacked an innocent driver. all of the bikers involved need to be arrested and charged with multiple felonies.
     
  8. KMatch

    KMatch Member

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    Don't overlook the word "illegal". If a group of gun owners gathered like this, acted carelessly like this, endangered others, you bet they'd need to be locked up AND punished. That's not what we're about as responsible gun owners and those clowns make the rest of us look bad.
     
  9. Jackal

    Jackal Member

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    Without all the details, it is impossible to speculate on who was right, who was wrong (I suspect there were foolish actions on both account). I'm a rider, and have been since I was 5 years old. I have had on more occasions than I can remember, been nearly hit on the road by vehicles that are either preoccupied (cell phones/txting are the worst offenders), been doing something foolish (speeding, running stop signs, etc) or just plain oblivious to other people on the road (not looking left while making a right turn onto a county road from a driveway). Have I been angry? You bet your sweet arse I have been. However, as an intelligent, complex, bipedal humanoid organism, I have seen fit not to violently display my anger with the foolishness of others. Everytime a motorcycle rider does something that matches or exceeds the stupidity of a driver, it makes motorcyclists look bad. Its not unlike guns in that repect. One idiot (in this case it sounds like several) does something stupid, it makes the whole lot look bad. If I was the cyclist, I would have told my buddies to stay the hell where they were, so as not to cause any trouble/scares/controversy. If I was the driver, with my wife and baby in the vehicle, I would have done ANYTHING necessary to prevent harm coming to them and ensure their safety.
     
  10. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    The news is reporting that none of the bikers are being charged? Is that accurate?
     
  11. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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  12. GoWolfpack

    GoWolfpack Member

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    According to the last news I read they have only apprehended two of them. The SUV driver will not be charged.
     
  13. desidog

    desidog Member

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    A couple things, from someone who used to commute that stretch...

    This incident has had the potential to happen often; groups of bikers intentionally block all lanes of traffic, acting as pace cars essentially, and slow it down to a crawl...or in this case, full stop. Then their buddies have the whole highway for stunting. After a few minutes, the blockers follow their gang.

    I've been in this type of traffic jam twice. It's very annoying and inconsiderate; but hey, "This is New Yaaaak.. Foxtrot Uniform."

    Also, the reason he got off the highway is that there is a huge bottleneck there at the GW bridge. To stay on the highway would get him in gridlock in another 200 yards.

    I wasn't there for this one, but i imagine the Rover driver was a bit paranoid when these goons blocked all traffic, and, (understandably but wrongly) thinking he was about to get jacked, hit it.

    The important thing that isn't being said in all this, is that there's 50 blocks and six minutes of video without a single cop in it. This is proof positive that if you need to defend yourself the police won't get there in time... Even in a "police state" like NYC. If they were armed it could have escalated on the first scene and gotten a lot worse, yet at the same time i think event justifies the right to carry...because if it were assumed people were armed, the bikers wouldn't pull that crap in the first place.
     
  14. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    Yes, I was aware of that news. The radio report I heard said the police had decided not to pursue charges against the two in custody and were looking for a third man.
     
  15. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Respectfully, I don't agree.

    The difference here is that gym isn't advocating outright confiscation/elimination of motocycles with no cause. What he said was to impound their bikes as a result of the commission of illegal actions with them.

    The same would apply (and rightfully so) for anybody who would commit a criminal act with a firearm.

    :)
     
  16. gym

    gym member

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    Thanks Chief, I don't understand how Willie thought I said that when I clearly did not. Sometimes some of us tend to blow through these posts too fast and miss the content. After all of the thousands of emails and letters I have written trying to get those in power to appreciate our rights, I would be the last person to take someone else's away if what they were doing was legal.
    Drag Racing and endangering lives in one of the busiest and dangerous roads in the country is not a right.
    For those who may not know where this is, it is one of the main roads into and out of NYC. It leads onto the triborough bridge and is a key artery into the City, and connects Manhatten's uptown to Bklyn, Queens and Staten Island, through the Verrazano Narrows. Not a place off in the sticks some place where there is no traffic. 125th street entrance is backed up 24 hours a day with people driving in and out of Manhattan, a very bad place for jerks to play stupid games.
    Usually there is a sufficient police Presence there, "or was when I lived in NYC". It's hard to understand how this could have built up there with no LEO's around.
    Plus the drive is known for it's many accidents, and poor conditions. Just getting on it is hard enough unless you have a car that accelerates quickly.
     
  17. REDMASTA

    REDMASTA Member

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    I wouldn't have run a group of bikers over just because they were blocking traffic to stunt as annoying as it might be; so I can't realistically comment on how I would of handled it.

    Both sides went full retard in my opinion, and I don't feel one bit sorry for the SUV driver or any bikers injured after he first knocked them over.
     
  18. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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  19. Batista

    Batista Member

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  20. tepin

    tepin Member

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    The US Supreme Court has ruled that law enforcement has no legal duty to protect individuals. Plus, I believe they were off duty, probably friends with the other bikers AND didn't want their department knowing they were part of the event.
     
  21. gym

    gym member

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    I agree with that, they didn't want to get involved. But it will more than likely go in their "jacket" and when it becomes a choice for a promotion, or a crap post that no one wants, they will pay for it then. A cop should know better, they took an oath, they are on duty 24/7, like it or not when it comes to making bad decisions.
     
  22. TonyDedo

    TonyDedo Member

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    Has anyone seen the video just released of the "beating." Doesn't show much, just the victim on the ground and someone shewing off the bikers, but I did notice something particularity interesting: the guy's car door was wide open. And in one clip of the original video you see one of the bikers opening the car's door in the middle of the highway. Can't help by wonder why this guy didn't think to LOCK HIS DOORS.

    Many gun owners instinct is to go to their gun as a first line of defense, but I'd take a 3500lb SUV over a gun any day of the week. The guy should have locked the doors, moved away from the windows, and kept the vehicle moving, even if that meant just doing donuts in the middle of the street. He probably would have been fine until the cops arrived, even if he was stuck in traffic. And if the bikers managed to break a window, it's still a lot easier to defended yourself and your family from inside the car than outside.

    I feel bad for the guy - could have been any one of us.
     
  23. Swichblade

    Swichblade Member

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    CZ P09 Duty. Never worry about not having enough ammo.
     
  24. Malamute

    Malamute Member

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    I didn't look at all the links. There have been several vids showing some profoundly reckless behavior on the part of the bikes. Riding on the wrong side of the road through traffic, mobs of bikes splitting lanes and passing traffic on all sides, riding on sidewalks, running all traffic lights along the way, with their friends blocking incoming traffic in many places. Many of the riders had removed their license plates before the ride. It looks like there were hundreds of them from the vids. At one point, they did a U turn and you could see many of the other riders.

    The other vids were by the same guy that took the one shown on TV of the stop and attack. He posted them on his youtube also, then took them down, but many people copied them and reposted on various sites. Here are the other vids. In one instance they appear to have a hassle with another car driver.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

    It was initially believed by many that the initial contact from the bike slowing in front of the car caused a wreck, but it did NOT, the rider stopped and started backing his bike back to the vehicle, and all the other bikes also stopped around it. They began hitting the vehicle, and someone slashed a tire. It was at that point he took off and ran over the guy. Here is a decent breakdown of the vid and what happened.

    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php

    It appears that some have commented without really understanding what happened. The vid breakdown and other vids from that day may help gain some understanding into the overall behavior of the riders, and the event that became the assault situation.

    It also appears that some involved in the melee had long criminal records, along with suspended drivers licenses.
     
  25. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    The latest news, 10-08-13 is that some of the participants were off duty NYPD. In at least one case an undercover police officer is suspected of taking part in the attack on the car. Apparently the NYPD had video of this talking place.

    tipoc
     
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