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How young can one be to own an SBR?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Messenger Guard, Aug 8, 2011.

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  1. Messenger Guard

    Messenger Guard Member

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    My son really loves my recently built, registered SBR. I gifted him one of my 16" ARs but he is already talking about SBRing it. Is eighteen old enough since it is the age to own long guns in general or does 21 apply in this case since it's not an in general weapon? All responses appreciated.
     
  2. GoingQuiet

    GoingQuiet Member

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    If you are 18, you can BUILD your own SBR.

    If you are 21 you can BUY your own SBR from a dealer.
     
  3. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    You only have to be 21 to buy from a dealer. At 18, you can buy from an individual or, I presume make one yourself.
     
  4. Dustin0

    Dustin0 Member

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    From what I have found. You must 21 to own a NFA item. Form 1 ask if you are under 21.
     
  5. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    I called the ATF to ask...and the agent with whom I spoke didn't know. (Surprise!?!) He is checking and is going to call me back. I am asking for a specific paragraph citation as I don't rely on opinions where these guys are concerned. The NFA does not specifically address age. The GCA allows for possession of a long gun by anyone over 18 (within other legal restrictions of course). I'll post what I get back.
     
  6. Dustin0

    Dustin0 Member

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    Did you call the NFA branch ?
     
  7. Vyacheslav

    Vyacheslav member

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    its 18 to make one, on the form where it asks you if you are under 21, you answer yes and in the comment section add that you are 18, 19, or 20
     
  8. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    I just spoke with the NFA branch and was told that it is 21 to make the SBR as well as transfer one. The gentleman with whom I spoke, Mr. Mason, said that he would provide me chapter and verse if I sent him an e-mail. He said that they "fall back" on the 4473 as their reason for ruling. An 18-year-old can buy a long gun, but not a handgun or a stripped receiver (listed simply as a "firearm"). He said that because the SBR was no longer a "long gun" and was now a "firearm made from a rifle" it was no longer legal for the 18-year-old to make, buy or own.
     
  9. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Yes, but if you purchase an nfa weapon from an individual, you don't have to do a 4473. You only have to do the form 4 and tax. Hence private sales at 18 are ok.
     
  10. crazy-mp

    crazy-mp Member

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    Why don't you (Dad) just build it as a SBR, either through a 07/SOT or ATF form 1 and then fill out a ATF form 5 and when he is 21 its his free and clear.
     
  11. Messenger Guard

    Messenger Guard Member

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    To address your question, I already have a few. His AR is his. He has an interest in gunsmithing and wants his rifle to be SBRed by him. I can't blame him. To build something for yourself gives a sense of accomplishment that can't be bought with a premade item.
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Do you have a belief that Dad (Messenger Guard) is going to die when his son turns 21? :eek:

    Form 5 is for (among other things) tax-exempt transfer to an heir. "Heir" indicates disbursements of property after a death. Giving a rifle to a son isn't a bequest, it's just a gift, so it would have to be done on a Form 4.
     
  13. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    1) You really need to speak with ATF Legal about this one, unless the guy at the NFA branch is going to kick your question over to them.

    2) I would request a ruling in writing on ATF letterhead.

    3) If ATF is says an SBR is no longer a "rifle", but merely a "firearm", as defined by the GCA, then 922(r) should definitely not apply to them - and I've read 'Yes' and 'No' from them on that particular question.
     
  14. PTK

    PTK Member

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    18+ for F1, 21+ for F4 from a dealer. I had NFA items (through F1s) at 19. ;)

    I'll dig around, but there's already been more than one of us to receive a letter on this and subsequently get NFA items. If I can find the letters, mine or others, I'll post them for you.
     
  15. GoingQuiet

    GoingQuiet Member

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    You forgot F4 from individual
     
  16. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    The NFA branch disagrees. But they have yet to offer me a citation as to the source of their opinion. What I was sent was information concerning the GCA and I pointed out that my question did NOT ask about that. I'll share whatever else I get.

    Short answer: submit the Form 1 and see what happens.
     
  17. GoingQuiet

    GoingQuiet Member

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    The NFA branch is wrong. This isnt the first time that NFA has told wrong things.
     
  18. crazy-mp

    crazy-mp Member

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    Take that to court and see how that works out for you!
     
  19. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    And...the NFA branch is the one that approves the Form 1.

    Good luck.
     
  20. PTK

    PTK Member

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    I haven't been able to find the letter, I'm sorry. I never thought I'd need it again...

    Anyway, worst case, I'll dig out the other ones. I'd just rather post the letter to me, is all, but there is NOTHING in law preventing 18-20 year-olds from making NFA items.


    EDIT: Here you go.

    [​IMG]



    "...the NFA is silent on age restrictions".

    This is not my letter, however I received a quite similar one. Again, I had NFA items (on F1s) prior to turning 21. Call BS if you want, but... there's nothing in the law preventing it. The NFA tech branch can say what they want, but there would be no legal reason for a F1 denial. If denied, they'd have to put a reason. What is the legal reason? We don't feel like it? There are NO age restrictions in the NFA, and thus no legal reason to deny a F1.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2011
  21. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    You have to be 21 to get any kind of FFL, even a C&R one.
     
  22. PTK

    PTK Member

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    What does that have to do with anything discussed in this thread?
     
  23. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    ^ I believe you need an FFL in order to get an SB anything.
     
  24. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    You believe incorrectly.


    Anyone legal to own a firearm can make an SBR/SBS if its kosher in their state once the paperwork gets finished.
     
  25. PTK

    PTK Member

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    As Sam said, you're entirely incorrect. I couldn't get my FFL until I was 21, but had NFA items at 19..
     
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