Hunting with a 223/556 11.5 AR

[jmorris]

I don't take any pleasure in killing an animal. I can walk around and enjoy the woods out-of-season. When its deer season I'm there for one thing only and I take every advantage to increase any opportunity I can get.

I have had a lot of fun Dove hunting and will kill any pig on our place but I feel the same way about other animals.

My buddy is always telling me I should shoot some of the rabbits around our place, I don't particularly like rabbit and they feed other animals, so I added an old rabbit target to one of the plate racks.



And yes that's a real one eating on the left by the backyard fence, while I was shooting yesterday evening.

 

[R Reed]

What I neglected to mention in my last - distracted by otherwise prepping for a business meeting this evening - is that using these copper solids which require such high impact velocities for expansion cuts the useful effective range of the firearm to less than half of what it can be if the shooter chooses a cup and core bullet. I’ve taken hogs out past 400 with 77SMK’s, coyotes past 600, and I still get expansion and internal trauma.

Let the copper solids slip below 1900 and you might as well be shooting FMJ’s, so a hunter really has to limit their range to that 2100+ impact velocity. Copper solids are best reserved for rounds and barrel lengths where they’ll leave the station near, if not well over 3000fps.

Lehigh controlled chaos claim they are good down to 1500fps, and from some testing I have seen, I would say that is a fairly reliable number if you wanted a solid copper number. And I agree solid copper can limit your effective distance. but as long as you understand your limitations and stay within them, then solid copper is a viable option. There are better options though, which is why I mentioned the gold dot bullets, and there are others.

 

[35 Whelen]

Unlike millions of Americans who have chosen to do so for over half a century.

True, and I'm glad that fad is waning as it is a testament to the popularity of the platform, not the effectiveness of a .224" bullet from a .223 on deer. If you'd offered those same millions of Americans ONE bolt action rifle in ONE caliber with which to hunt deer, few if any would've chosen a chambering in .223. For a little perspective, a .223 fired from an 11" barrel is roughly the ballistic equivalent of a .22 Hornet fired from a 22" barrel, and I know of no one who has ever lauded the effectiveness of a .22 Hornet for deer.

Hunters should use what's most effective, not what's most popular.

35W

 

[R Reed]

True, and I'm glad that fad is waning as it is a testament to the popularity of the platform, not the effectiveness of a .224" bullet from a .223 on deer. If you'd offered those same millions of Americans ONE bolt action rifle in ONE caliber with which to hunt deer, few if any would've chosen a chambering in .223. For a little perspective, a .223 fired from an 11" barrel is roughly the ballistic equivalent of a .22 Hornet fired from a 22" barrel, and I know of no one who has ever lauded the effectiveness of a .22 Hornet for deer.

Hunters should use what's most effective, not what's most popular.

35W

And yet it's what the us military is issued and with fmj ammo... and last i checked most people are bigger thsn deer.

In any case, op started a new thread shopping for a 18-20 in upper based on the feedback here.

 

[Robbins290]

True, and I'm glad that fad is waning as it is a testament to the popularity of the platform, not the effectiveness of a .224" bullet from a .223 on deer. If you'd offered those same millions of Americans ONE bolt action rifle in ONE caliber with which to hunt deer, few if any would've chosen a chambering in .223. For a little perspective, a .223 fired from an 11" barrel is roughly the ballistic equivalent of a .22 Hornet fired from a 22" barrel, and I know of no one who has ever lauded the effectiveness of a .22 Hornet for deer.

Hunters should use what's most effective, not what's most popular.

35W

There is a pretty significant difference between a 11" in 223 vs a 20" in 5.56, I know alot of people that hunt with 223 and not one of them use a 11" barrel. I use a 20" barrel with 62 grain loaded to 5.56 nato specs, i get just over 3000 fps. So at 100 yards I will have 1160 ft-lbs of energy. That is more than plenty to take down a 200 lbs deer.

I got a 197 lbs buck with a 22MAG once, 1 shot dropped it. Not sure what the energy for that round was, but it worked just fine.

 

[jmorris]

And yet it's what the us military is issued and with fmj ammo... and last i checked most people are bigger thsn deer.

The goals are different. The rules are too.

 

[Hookeye]

I wasnt impressed w 100gr cup.n core from a .243 win ( double lung 50 yarder on the trot ).

.223/5.56? Not for general deer usage.

Maybe in more controlled setting, like cull operation.

Heck I havent seen a buck worth shooting last couple seasons, and if I do this yr, want to be able to take him from variety of angles.

I have run an 11.5/5.5 bbl on chucks LOL

Like .35 rem for in the woods but have switched to .308 win for woods/ field. Because of the rifle I got

 

[Choctaw]

I'll kill pigs with whatever is handy which is very often an AR platform rifle. The horror.

 

[Robbins290]

I'll kill pigs with whatever is handy which is very often an AR platform rifle. The horror.

View attachment 1263144

Pigs did that? No wonder why people hate them.

 

[Choctaw]

Pigs did that? No wonder why people hate them.

Yes, pigs did that. I kill them however I can. It's not hunting, it is eradication.

 

[Robbins290]

Yes, pigs did that. I kill them however I can. It's not hunting, it is eradication.

I do the same with coyotes, but dam. Those pigs can cause some serious damage.

I see people trapping them and doing what ever they can to kill them.

So you have rules where you are? I heard Texas has no rules with killing them, No hunting license (if you are not harvesting the meat) no rules on what equipment you can use.

And to stay on topic, What load/factory ammo are you using for the pigs? I bet a 62-64 grain bonded bullet will drop them.

 

[Choctaw]

They aren't a game animal in Texas so we can pretty do what needs to be done. USDA aerial hunts twice a year (in November they killed nearly 200 on our place and the west neighbor's). We trap them for whatever that's worth. If I'm using an AR I use 62 grain bullets. I have also used 12 gauge, 20 gauge, 10mm, 45 Colt, 30-06, 357 mag, 44 mag, 45-70, 270 Winchester, Ford F-250, 7 mag and electricity. Well, one got tangled up in a live powerline downed after a storm but I counted that as a win. My wildlife biologist went out to do a quail survey and said, "dang, you have a bunch of hogs." Yeah, you're right.

 

[Varminterror]

I know alot of people that hunt with 223 and not one of them use a 11" barrel.

I use a 10.5".

 

[Robbins290]

I use a 10.5".

For deer? How does it work? Do you sun supressed? My 20” is already too loud. I bet a 10.5 is hard on the ears.

 

[Varminterror]

For deer? How does it work? Do you sun supressed? My 20” is already too loud. I bet a 10.5 is hard on the ears.

Built to be suppressed. I really don't like hunting without a can any more - even with long barrels. It's just too nice to be able to shoot an animal and not feel like the world cracked in half around you. My ears have been ringing since 1996 and I have less than 30% hearing left in my left ear - I shoot a lot, and even with ear pro, I know I'm doing more and more damage, so I'm damned sure not shooting without ear pro.

A lot of people speculate about poor performance of small cartridges on game without ever having tried them. Few others can't shoot well on their best day and take bad shots with small cartridges then blame the cartridges. A lot of guys also lie to themselves that a much bigger cartridge will forgive them for poor marksmanship, but then they lie to themselves about bullet failures or a bad scope or whatever other excuse to forgive themselves when deer run off.

But then again, I've taken deer with a Glock 19 in 9mm and a Walther PPK 380acp, and I've seen deer taken with 17HMR, and I had opportunity to knock down literally over a hundred deer so far, always finding interest in trying different cartridges and rifles... My eyes aren't blinded by public perception that deer are 1,000 pound, armour plated warriors of the Gods which require massive impact energy numbers to kill. Put a good bullet where it needs to go and you'll put venison in your freezer.

 

[Robbins290]

Built to be suppressed. I really don't like hunting without a can any more - even with long barrels. It's just too nice to be able to shoot an animal and not feel like the world cracked in half around you. My ears have been ringing since 1996 and I have less than 30% hearing left in my left ear - I shoot a lot, and even with ear pro, I know I'm doing more and more damage, so I'm damned sure not shooting without ear pro.

A lot of people speculate about poor performance of small cartridges on game without ever having tried them. Few others can't shoot well on their best day and take bad shots with small cartridges then blame the cartridges. A lot of guys also lie to themselves that a much bigger cartridge will forgive them for poor marksmanship, but then they lie to themselves about bullet failures or a bad scope or whatever other excuse to forgive themselves when deer run off.

But then again, I've taken deer with a Glock 19 in 9mm and a Walther PPK 380acp, and I've seen deer taken with 17HMR, and I had opportunity to knock down literally over a hundred deer so far, always finding interest in trying different cartridges and rifles... My eyes aren't blinded by public perception that deer are 1,000 pound, armour plated warriors of the Gods which require massive impact energy numbers to kill. Put a good bullet where it needs to go and you'll put venison in your freezer.

Thats one thing i want to look at. Is getting a can.

I agree with agree with people speculating. I have a good friend that i has almost my whole life. He thinks you need a 300 win mag for white tail at 50 yards. I personally taken deer with 22mag and 40 s&w. I never had a deer not go down. I love my 20” as i can use it to hunt deer and coyote all year.

I do not see it, but what load do you use for the 10.5.

In my state, 22mag and up can be used for deer. Always wanted an ar15 for deer hunting, but i never thought about a can. I can legally drive around with the pistol loaded in my side by side. Makes for a quicker shot.

 

[sarduy]

As mentioned before by wiser hunters than me, bullet placement is way more important than caliber. I'm very very confident is my bullet placement skills as long as the gun do it's job. I was going with the 11.5 AR because that's what I have, but more velocity is always welcome so I had the chance to get a 18-20. I choose the 18" because it's a nice balance between length maneuverability and accuracy. I can't get a whole new rifle/caliber "just for hunting" right now. A lot of folks recommended the 6.5 Grendel and I will look into it in the future and maybe a 300WM or 7mm PRC which was going to be my project gun. But as for now all it is is a 11.5 until the 18" gets here.