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Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Ironhand54, Oct 12, 2017.

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  1. Ironhand54

    Ironhand54 Member

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    It has become dogma among BP shooters that petroleum products should not be used in lube as this will cause all manner of bad things to happen.

    I first heard this years ago in the ad copy for the, then new, TC Wonder Lube. It has been repeated many times since but I have never seen any evidence for the claim except anecdotal accounts.

    Can anyone cite actual studies or experiments to prove these claims? I would hate to think that we have all been just repeating bad ad copy for all these years.

    IronHand
     
  2. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    "petroleum products should not be used in lube" is the dumbed down version.

    Many petroleum based lubes used successfully with smokeless powder will gum up when used with Black Powder.
    Most if not all bio product based lubes have been used with Black Powder more or less successfully.
    So it has been expressed that the easiest way to avoid gumming up is to avoid all petroleum products and stick with "natural" bio based lubes.

    So if you know that half the Skittles in the skittle bag are poisoned, and there are no poison M&M's in the M&M bag, which bag are you going to eat from?
     
  3. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    Neither have I. The only time I got rust was when I used Bore Butter prior to storage after hunting season and I didn't reapply it after a few months. .

    I use 3 in 1 oil. But I use it sparingly.
     
  4. rodwha

    rodwha Member

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    Paraffin wax (Gulf Wax) certainly defies that as it's used in Gatofeo's #1 lube and works quite well, and according to Gatofeo the best of everything else he tried.
     
  5. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    One is not supposed to use petroleum products in the bullet lube, either for the conicals, or the patch on the round ball, and should remove the petroleum product completely from the barrel by wiping before one fires the first round.

    No one is suggesting that petroleum products should never touch any part of the black powder firearm. ;) Lots of people use Birchwood Casey Shield, WD-40, Remington Oil, Hoppe's Oil, and even in some cases lithium grease, as rust preventative and lube for working parts that don't normally get fouled with black powder or black powder residue.

    The reason one does not want to mix a petroleum grease with black powder residue is that such grease does not respond to water, or to most water based solvents. Solvents that remove the petroleum based grease and oil normally do not do well at neutralizing the black powder ash residue to prevent it from forming corrosive acid compounds as it absorbs moisture from the air.

    LD
     
  6. daboyleroy

    daboyleroy Member

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    At my age I want to remember the egg and coffee scientific studies. It was good for us, then bad for us, and last I remember it is back to good. In fact my doctor told me that about 3 months back.

    The only study that I put any trust in ....is the cigarette/cancer study. Think about climate change.......it started as “global warming”.......and then they had to rename it after the “polar vortex”.

    Think about us.....as people...we can not agree on the point at which a child is a life/a living breathing thing.....much less, creation of the world or sex of the baby....
    Sorry for the soapbox ....

    That said,,,check out:

    The case/charge:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-veg-oil/

    The defense:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...product-publishes-statement-on-canolaoilgate/

    I have used Remoil for as long as I can remember on everything. But I also CHECK and clean everything from time to time. Try to shot them all. Now that we have our own backyard range and grans....not that hard to do in the shooting part.

    Have a large day
     
  7. Don McDowell

    Don McDowell Member

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    There are some lube recipes that get along alright with blackpowder, and there are some that don't. One of the best Black Powder Target rifle shooters in this country uses one of the ODG's recipes, that take's oil dag and graphite. Another one uses one of the recipes that takes steam cylinder oil, and one of the well known suppliers of blackpowder shooting supplies uses a form of alox in their lube recipe.
    Another factor that add's to the mix is the blackpowder used. I once tried some of the Elephant powder with bullets coated with Lee Liquid Alox, that was a huge mess. But with another powder it wasn't quite as bad.
     
  8. AZAndy
    • Contributing Member

    AZAndy Contributing Member

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    I always used Vaseline, and it never caused me any trouble. What's the problem with petroleum supposed to be?
     
  9. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    As I understand it, it's not the petroleum oils as a whole group, but their composition - paraffinic oils are said to be OK with Black Powder, while naphthenic oils do form a tar-like fouling. But people do like to exaggerate and generalize, so there you have it...
     
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  10. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    My heavens, I've been doing it all wrong all these years. But then like the bumble bee that doesn't know it can't fly, I didn't know that petroleum based lubes would gum up the lock works on my BP revolvers.

    Ah well, this just proves that ignorance is bliss. Oh wait, I clean mine each time I shoot them. Maybe that's why I've never experienced the dreaded gumming up of which you speak. There goes that ignorance thing again, silly me thinking I should keep my firearms clean.
     
  11. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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    Same here Jeepnik, I gut my revolvers after shooting and everything goes into hot soapy water for a bath. Dried with a towel then blasted with WD40. That is wiped off then 3 in 1 oil is lightly applied, just a few drops is enough. Never had a problem.

    But as LD said I always wipe the barrel and chambers with rubbing alcohol cleaning it of the 3 in 1 oil before shooting.
     
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  12. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Actually, I clean mine in an old dishwasher in the garage. I use it to clean all sorts of parts. Hot soapy water cleans a multitude of sins, and the heat dries things fast to prevent rust. Then just take what ever it is out and lube as needed.
     
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  13. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    My air compressor with a blower tip is invaluable for cleaning my BP guns.
    I'm not sure how the "old timers " got along without one.
     
  14. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    I believe in experimentation! :)

    I tried WD-40 as a patch lube in my .54 Hawken. Seating the fourth ball was very difficult, so I stopped the experiment, cleaned the gun, and started using PAM cooking spray (canola oil). I have also tried commercial bullets lubed with waxy lubes in blackpowder cartridges and found my single action revolvers were difficult to clean. I did not publish these experiments, so I guess they are anecdotal too!

    There are always new lubes coming out. I think you should do your own experiments and see which ones you like. Sometimes when you re-invent the wheel, you get a better wheel! ;)
     
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  15. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Wrap your worm with tow and dip it thusly into hot water. Scrub the bore, soaking and cleaning the tow with each few passes. Follow with dry tow, then bear's oil.

    No petroleum needed.

    The old timers weren't stupid.
     
  16. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    The exact point I stopped reading your post.
     
  17. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Like several here just thought petro based lubes were a no-no, so built a routine based Ballistol, although recently started using Mobile One grease on the arbor/base pin.
    Using Hand comfortable hot water and just a bit of Dawn with a bore mop and tooth brush on the bore and nipples, I don't think the gun metal is truly stripped of the waxes and oils that shooting a lube mix of 50/50 imparts. My goal is to remove black powder fouling not lube. Cleaned after each session and a twice seasonal complete take down.

    Tried the dish washer routine, did not like the flash rust in the bore. The oil mop/patch would show a trace of rust red, did not like that and I felt the metal was being stripped of any oil that may permeate it.
     
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