I am torn between 2 loves 1860 Snub Nose

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Pocket

Pocket

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I have been looking at two different 1860 Snub Nose for days now.

1st love has the fluted cylinder and the bird head grip.

2nd love has full cylinder and standard grips.

There is close to $100.00 difference, the fluted cost more.

Just can't hit the pay now button...yet
 
I really like the looks of unfluted cylinders. If its $100 less I think it would be an easy choice for me.

However, seems like the bird head grip may be more fitting on the snub. Guess I'd just have to see them.
 
I want to make one but just can't bring myself to make the first cut. Had an old Remington clone that came close but I received an offer I couldn't refuse. Seems every time I get attached to one that happens...
 
I have seen those marketed as “avenging angel” pistols. I don’t know where the name came from but I assume it to be a movie reference or something similar that I’m not familiar with. Possibly something I am familiar with but hasn’t registered in my brain yet. I do like the looks of those guns. Has a very utilitarian look to it. Makes me think about what a preacher or store clerk may have had hidden but handy in a gold rush, railroad, or cow town.
 
1KPerDay said:
Look up Porter Rockwell.
Click to expand...

OK, I did... Interesting character!

Old No7

"Porter, as he was called, has been credited with killing more outlaws than Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, Doc Holliday, and Tom Horn combined - a reputation which earned him the rather menacing nickname, “Destroying Angel.” Having been one of the very first converts to, and members of the burgeoning Mormon Church in New York State in 1830, he became a bodyguard to the church founder and Prophet Joseph Smith. In this role he faced continued anti-Mormon persecution and violence, leading him to hone his skills of marksmanship and fighting. At one point, his family’s home was attacked and burned to the ground, as they watched. Thereafter, he vowed to never be helpless again. While Rockwell was in his service, Joseph Smith promised him that as long as he stayed faithful to the Church, and did not cut his hair, he too, like the Biblical figure Samson, could not be killed by any man. Smith said that “no bullet or blade can harm thee.” This promise would make Rockwell known as a miraculous modern-day Samson type of figure, and created a great deal of fame, and mythology surrounding him. After Smith’s martyrdom, Porter Rockwell made the trek out west with the rest of the Mormon Church to what would become Utah Territory.

In Utah, Rockwell quickly resumed his duties as a bodyguard to the new head of the Mormon Church, Brigham Young. He became a Deputy US Marshal and local territorial lawman, working all throughout the territories of the American West. He was known as an expert marksman who carried multiple weapons with him - most notably, two large black-powder revolvers which he could shoot simultaneously. He gained enormous notoriety, through his many successes in law enforcement. Despite his numerous violent confrontation, he was never struck by a bullet. This prompted gunslingers to come to Utah to see if they could shoot down the “Destroying Angel,” gain some notoriety of their own, and put to rest the legend of Rockwell’s Samson-like invincibility.

At this featured location, on the Main Street of Lehi, Utah, one such outlaw tried his hand at defeating Rockwell and his myth. Lehi City court documents recorded the events of June 25, 1873 as an "affray," or the “the fighting of two or more persons in a public place, and to the terror of others.” This affray began as a young outlaw named Loren Dibble approached Porter Rockwell in broad daylight, drew two guns, and emptied them at him. According to onlookers, Rockwell simply stood still, staring directly back at Dibble, without even having his composure ruffled. When Dibble had fired all of twelve shots, Rockwell drew his own two revolvers and shot at Dibble’s feet, making the young outlaw "dance" to avoid being hit by each bullet. When Rockwell had emptied both of his own guns, he walked directly up to Dibble, grabbed him by his collar, and shook him like a rag doll. Rockwell yelled into Loren Dibble’s face “If it wasn’t for the fact that I know who your father really was, I’d have killed you!” Rockwell threw him to the ground, and walked away. This comment about Dibble’s father was not understood at the time, by those present, but has more recently come to be understood through genealogy and DNA tracing that Dibble was the son of Joseph Smith, through one of Smith’s polygamous wives. Few other outlaws were given the benefit of having their lives spared by Porter Rockwell. Rockwell was known to kill too soon, sometimes without sufficient justification for taking a life."
 
Here's some more info...

Old No7

"The history of the American West has a thread of Mormonism sewn through its fabric. Early Mormon settlements and pilgrims could be found extensively in all points west of Missouri from 1850 onward. As noted in On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, 1844-1861, those headed to the frontier were often given a pistol to carry with them by the church and in many cases trained by those with experience on how to use them.

Mormon leader Brigham Young even kept as his personal bodyguard one Orrin Porter “Old Port” Rockwell who is often called the “Avenging Angel” and “Mormon Avenger.” Rockwell, a renowned mountain man and scout, was a Deputy U.S. Marshal and long-time marshal of Great Salt Lake City. Involved in numerous gunfights for various reasons (some controversial today), he once told a crowd; “I never killed anyone who didn’t need killing.”

porter-rockwell.jpg
Porter Rockwell, LDS gunslinger (Photo: Harold B. Library at Brigham Young University)

He died of natural causes at age 64 in 1878 and is reputed to have carried several chopped down Colt cap and ball guns for personal defense.

Shortened to a 2-ish inch barrel, the cylinder-loading rod was removed and a new sight mounted on the end of the abbreviated barrel.

colt-model-1860-army-revolver-so-called-mormon-avenger-2.png
Colt Model 1860 Army revolver so-called “Mormon Avenger” with period shortened barrel to 2 7/8”, serial number 141917.

Other minor changes, including trimming the heel and toe of the wooden grips and adding a lanyard are also seen in these types of modified guns. While there are a few 1860 models that pop up, most tend to be the 1851 Navy gun, which coincidentally had a shorter trigger guard and smaller caliber which may have contributed to their choice."
 
WestKentucky said:
I have seen those marketed as “avenging angel” pistols. I don’t know where the name came from but I assume it to be a movie reference or something similar that I’m not familiar with. Possibly something I am familiar with but hasn’t registered in my brain yet. I do like the looks of those guns. Has a very utilitarian look to it. Makes me think about what a preacher or store clerk may have had hidden but handy in a gold rush, railroad, or cow town.
Click to expand...
You’re getting warmer... ;)
 
Old No7 said:
Here's some more info...

Old No7

"The history of the American West has a thread of Mormonism sewn through its fabric. Early Mormon settlements and pilgrims could be found extensively in all points west of Missouri from 1850 onward. As noted in On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, 1844-1861, those headed to the frontier were often given a pistol to carry with them by the church and in many cases trained by those with experience on how to use them.

Mormon leader Brigham Young even kept as his personal bodyguard one Orrin Porter “Old Port” Rockwell who is often called the “Avenging Angel” and “Mormon Avenger.” Rockwell, a renowned mountain man and scout, was a Deputy U.S. Marshal and long-time marshal of Great Salt Lake City. Involved in numerous gunfights for various reasons (some controversial today), he once told a crowd; “I never killed anyone who didn’t need killing.”

View attachment 935308
Porter Rockwell, LDS gunslinger (Photo: Harold B. Library at Brigham Young University)

He died of natural causes at age 64 in 1878 and is reputed to have carried several chopped down Colt cap and ball guns for personal defense.

Shortened to a 2-ish inch barrel, the cylinder-loading rod was removed and a new sight mounted on the end of the abbreviated barrel.

View attachment 935309
Colt Model 1860 Army revolver so-called “Mormon Avenger” with period shortened barrel to 2 7/8”, serial number 141917.

Other minor changes, including trimming the heel and toe of the wooden grips and adding a lanyard are also seen in these types of modified guns. While there are a few 1860 models that pop up, most tend to be the 1851 Navy gun, which coincidentally had a shorter trigger guard and smaller caliber which may have contributed to their choice."
Click to expand...

Interesting. In that picture it almost looks like he’s wearing a shemagh...

my neighbor is a 96 year old Mormon lady. She told me once that her people had taken the land from the Ute people and kept it for a hundred years but now it’s being taken from them by rich easterners who have been trying to get it for 50 years.
 
The hair thing was a result of being imprisoned while awaiting one of those promised "speedy Trials". "Patch", his boyhood nickname, had been arrested for the attempted assassination of the Govenor of Missouri. He grew his beard and hair as a natural result of being in jail at a time when folks did not take good care of prisoners, even those not yet convicted.

Once free he returned to his Prophet and President and showed up a a party where he scared the bejeebers out of folks with his wild looks. Having grown this hair in the service of the Church as it were or because the government felt he had made the attempt for the church (most believe he was innocent because of his very defence, folks knew he had not tried to assassinat the man because... he was still alive, he was granted a site.

He did not get cut or stabbed or shot until after he finally did cut the hair to provide a fever victim with hair for a wig many years and states later.

-kBob
 
I went off and did it. My first DYI belly gun.

Started with the fantacy Cabela's Confederate Navy 44.
20200812_192127.jpg 20200812_193331.jpg

No turning back now....
20200812_194853.jpg

Blued and put back together. 20200812_201655.jpg
Cleaned the brass up with "Mothers" mag wheel polish..all that is left to do is put a front sight on...

20200812_195740.jpg 20200812_201638.jpg

I left the screw so the loading ram can still be used.That part was not my idea, I copied it from somebody else.
 
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Pocket said:
I went off and did it. My first DYI belly gun.

Started with the fantacy Cabela's Confederate Navy 44.
View attachment 935402 View attachment 935403

No turning back now....
View attachment 935404
Blued and put back together.View attachment 935405
Cleaned the brass up with "Mothers" mag wheel polish..all that is left to do is put a front sight on...

View attachment 935407 View attachment 935408

I left the screw so the loading ram can still be used.That part was not my idea, I copied it from somebody else.
Click to expand...

Desperate Lee had a post here with photos of a loading lever which had a slot cut into the screw hole on the lever. This enables the user to leave the screw in place but install, use and then remove the lever without tools.
 
woodnbow said:
Desperate Lee had a post here with photos of a loading lever which had a slot cut into the screw hole on the lever. This enables the user to leave the screw in place but install, use and then remove the lever without tools.
Click to expand...


Thanks I will look for that post.
 
Nicely done Pocket!!

Once you get over the fear of cutting that barrel off, it's all downhill from there!

The pistol looks great.
 
Shotgun Willy said:
Nicely done Sir. Any estimate on FPS or penetration one could expect from such a mod?
Click to expand...

Since Pocket's snubnose may be less than 3 inches, his velocity may be slightly less than listed for the 3 inch snubnose below.
It depends on which powder is loaded and how much. -->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-birdshead-grip-models.865951/#post-11446254

"the velocity and muzzle energy of different length 1860 barrels loaded with 30 grains of Goex 3F and a round ball:

8" barrel - 882 fps - 242 ft. lbs.
5.5" barrel - 805 fps - 201 ft. lbs.
3" barrel - 550 fps - 94 ft. lbs. [about equal to a .25 acp]

The 1860 snubnose should probably be loaded with 777 and more of it if considered using for self-defense purposes."
 
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Found a few videos about making a snub nose "Bulldog" out of a Remington New Army. Looks pretty cool! I might have to do this if I can find an 1858 in stock anywhere.


He added a cartridge conversion cylinder, which is pretty ideal for this gun since you lose the loading lever with the chop job.
 
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Great job mr.pocket! Are you gonna crown the barrel? Im glad you overcame the fear of working on the gun....its a hard step to take because in most cases theres no turning back and sometimes you only get one chance to do it right. Any plans for other experiments in smithing? Would love to see your work.
 
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