Discussion in 'Legal' started by inkhead, Sep 24, 2008.
libs are taking over everything
I wouldn't take his word for it...afterall BO is in the kiss**s stage still...wait till he stomps on his words if he gets in office..
Obama is obviously a communist. He often paraphrases the Communist Manifesto in his speeches. Based on this reality, it is not at all hard to predict what he will do related to firearms. One need only look at the former Soviet Union's policy on firearms to know Obama's ultimate aims in that area, as unarmed men are more easily controlled.
He means to convert this country to communism if he can. This is what the preacher of his church for many years preached and this is what he believes. Anyone who thinks he and the Democrats might do otherwise is fooling themselves.
This can be plainly seen in the current crisis, where the initial solution is to begin socializing our country's monetary system and thereby gain control of a portion of the banking system. BTW, if one does one's research, one can find the roots of the current financial crisis, which rests it's beginnings back in the Clinton presidency.
Seriously folks, this guy is a Commie, don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.
A matter of perspective
My old political science professor in college used to say "where you stand depends on where you sit." When it comes to gun control, look at where they sit. I read the sponsor list for the proposed assault weapons ban introduced-all urban area politicians from what I saw (even someone from Denver). Obama is from the city. Being a country boy (from Illinois) who had a shotgun years before I could legally drive, it has been amazing what I learned living in a populated/urban area. Many (if not most) of my "city raised" friends have never fired a firearm. All they know of firearms is about what they see on TV or in the local paper when crimes are reported. That kind of background makes gun control no big deal-they think gee I don't own a gun, never had one, and all I see of guns is crime related so what the problem?
Unfortunately I think that is where Obama has come from. The question becomes can a man be enlightened and change his mind(and mean it). As gun owners, we can help change peoples minds-I recently took a "city raised" friend to the range-he loved it. He's getting an Illinois F.O.I.D. card(don't get me started on those) so he can buy a rifle. That one friend loved it so much, I've been approached by a half a dozen "city raised" friends who want to go to the range. And even if my buddies don't buy guns, hopefully they will think twice about gun control. We have to educate people-I doubt Obama knows what a barrel shroud is-we know he doesn't know the difference between a magazine and a clip-but neither do my "city raised" friends.
Interestingly enough, a big question will be what will happen to proposed gun control bills and current laws given the Supreme Court ruling on the 2nd Amendment. But yes the main question is has Obama become "aware" of the rest of the nation now that he left Chicago/Cook County? If I were talking to him, I'd want to ask him: So as man who taught Constitutional law and who would have taught law students about court precedents, and as an attorney who has sworn to uphold the Constitution, given the SC ruling what can we expect from you?
Yep and Obama is an empty suit who will say anything to get elected. He has done nothing of Substance since he took office in the US Senate.
Here is what he did for the people of Illinois.
As a state senator, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee coauthored an Illinois law creating a new pool of tax credits for developers. As a US senator, he pressed for increased federal subsidies. And as a presidential candidate, he has campaigned on a promise to create an Affordable Housing Trust Fund that could give developers an estimated $500 million a year.
But a Globe review found that thousands of apartments across Chicago that had been built with local, state, and federal subsidies - including several hundred in Obama's former district - deteriorated so completely that they were no longer habitable.
Grove Parc and several other prominent failures were developed and managed by Obama's close friends and political supporters. Those people profited from the subsidies even as many of Obama's constituents suffered. Tenants lost their homes; surrounding neighborhoods were blighted.
Some of the residents of Grove Parc say they are angry that Obama did not notice their plight. The development straddles the boundary of Obama's state Senate district. Many of the tenants have been his constituents for more than a decade.
"No one should have to live like this, and no one did anything about it," said Cynthia Ashley, who has lived at Grove Parc since 1994.
Obama's campaign, in a written response to Globe questions, affirmed the candidate's support of public-private partnerships as an alternative to public housing, saying that Obama has "consistently fought to make livable, affordable housing in mixed-income neighborhoods available to all."
The campaign did not respond to questions about whether Obama was aware of the problems with buildings in his district during his time as a state senator, nor did it comment on the roles played by people connected to the senator.
Among those tied to Obama politically, personally, or professionally are:
Valerie Jarrett, a senior adviser to Obama's presidential campaign and a member of his finance committee. Jarrett is the chief executive of Habitat Co., which managed Grove Parc Plaza from 2001 until this winter and co-managed an even larger subsidized complex in Chicago that was seized by the federal government in 2006, after city inspectors found widespread problems.
Allison Davis, a major fund-raiser for Obama's US Senate campaign and a former lead partner at Obama's former law firm. Davis, a developer, was involved in the creation of Grove Parc and has used government subsidies to rehabilitate more than 1,500 units in Chicago, including a North Side building cited by city inspectors last year after chronic plumbing failures resulted in raw sewage spilling into several apartments.
Antoin "Tony" Rezko, perhaps the most important fund-raiser for Obama's early political campaigns and a friend who helped the Obamas buy a home in 2005. Rezko's company used subsidies to rehabilitate more than 1,000 apartments, mostly in and around Obama's district, then refused to manage the units, leaving the buildings to decay to the point where many no longer were habitable.
Campaign finance records show that six prominent developers - including Jarrett, Davis, and Rezko - collectively contributed more than $175,000 to Obama's campaigns over the last decade and raised hundreds of thousands more from other donors. Rezko alone raised at least $200,000, by Obama's own accounting.
One of those contributors, Cecil Butler, controlled Lawndale Restoration, the largest subsidized complex in Chicago, which was seized by the government in 2006 after city inspectors found more than 1,800 code violations.
Butler and Davis did not respond to messages. Rezko is in prison; his lawyer did not respond to inquiries.
Jarrett, a powerful figure in the Chicago development community, agreed to be interviewed but declined to answer questions about Grove Parc, citing what she called a continuing duty to Habitat's former business partners. She did, however, defend Obama's position that public-private partnerships are superior to public housing.
Johnny Rivers and Oscar Brown, Jr. 1966.
Hey at least you got to ask him face to face which is further than most of us will ever get when confronting him on this issue. Whether he is lying or not I can't say and I won't make any assumptions. My feeling is that if a new AWB was passed under his nose that he would sign it. However until that happens I don't think we will know for sure. Based on his history of anti gun support I can't say I trust him in any way.
That said, I'm not a one issue voter and I don't agree with the politics of McCain and Palin in any way. I like that Palin is pro gun but that's about the only issue I agree with her on, all her other political views are far too different than my own. The same goes for McCain, I want to like the guy but I just can't bring myself to. The opposite goes for Obama, as much as I try to hate the guy I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says. In the end I'm going to go with what I think is best for the country not just myself. The way I see it we are doomed either way, whether its Obama or McCain neither one is going to be completely on our side when it comes to guns.
BTW guys if we want this thread to remain open lets be nice to each other and understand that we all have different opinions and views. We can disagree with each other but still keep it friendly
Can't believe this isn't yet locked. Has THR changed policy about political discussions?
About 6 months ago I wrote the Obama campaign about 2A
Three times actually. The first two times it was clear I support 2A and received no response. The third time I wrote I stated I'm concerned about the amount of guns in America and what is your position? I received a reply from a staffer saying Obama was against assault rifles, wanted the ban renewed etc.
This is the most ridiculous BS I've read in ages. Obama was a Constitutional Law professor and a Director of the notoriously anti-gun Joyce Foundation. Ever seen geekwitha45's hydra chart of Joyce showing all the anti-gun orgs they support? Obama has been directly involved in fighting against our rights for over a decade. As recently as 2005 he voted to ban .30-30 by name.
This isn't some side issue that Obama only recently started paying attention to - he has been in the thick of this for years and his actions speak quite loudly.
Those of you who are seriously entertaining the idea that Obama has had some major change of heart had better pry open a window and get some oxygen to your grey matter. Though I suspect that few here actually believe that - more likely they simply don't view RKBA as an important issue for themselves or they are ouutright trolls supporting their candidate.
Stolen from another site:
Address Gun Violence in Cities:
As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
How much more blatant an declaration of war against gun rights do you want?
Well, Obama is NOT pro-2A. It's arguable as to how much of the rest of the BOR he supports. With McCain, he appears to be more pro-2A, but it's hard to say. He's no friend of the rest of the Bill of Rights. These next few years will be tough for everyone who considers themselves to be a patriot.
The O show is a lying freak if he did say that. His vote record and wanted 10 points of gun control legislation speak for themselves.
kudos to the mods for letting this stay open. someone mentioned the current financial abyss we are looking into. it's yet another litmus test to measure these politicians by. what are their first inclinations? well, if you're listening, mostly they suggest, and quite knee-jerkedly, that the government can and should fix the problem. it's almost like there is no debate. the only debate is exactly HOW the government should intervene. some republicans are balking, but this desire to hand over a significant, majority portion of lending in our country to the federal government is a bi-partisan effort.
likewise, and more pertinent to the spirit of this site, another litmus test is the issue of our right to keep and bear arms. despite what many seem to think, i believe the movement to disarm U.S. citizens is also a bi-partisan effort. we sit here in a thread like this, bickering over presidential candidates' worthiness....like deluded peasants bickering over a few rotten roots and spuds....the only produce afforded by some small parcel of fallow land. for all of the staged, meaningless partisan sniping that goes on between these two parties year after year, if a rational man takes the time to even do a surface investigation into the political and personal habits of our 'repesentatives' in the federal government, one thing becomes clear as crystal.....they DO agree, largely, on one thing....an end goal of maintaining personal power and influence and gaining more, by way of the slow subjugation of the american people.
seriously, from what we know of politicians throughout our history, especially recent history, why would you or i trust any one of them? many of us, presumably, despite peripheral reasons for owning them, keep firearms in the spirit of how this country was born.......we have an obligation to keep them as a very serious reminder to our 'leaders' as to where exactly ultimate authority in this country rests; and as very real tools in the event that our representative government comes to a point where many feel that it has ceased to regard the public will at all. what was richard prior's motto in brewster's millions?...none of the above. both of the candidates for the office of the president have failed my litmus tests.......neither earns my vote. can you imagine if even 20% percent of registered voters refused to vote for either, and voiced their reasons? if only so many americans had enough sense. speaking of which, how about we all go read 'common sense' and see how that picture of america measures up to how we live now. certain very worthy forbearers would be ashamed, though probably not surprised.
Lets not look at what Obama SAYS NOW. Lets look at what he has done in the PAST. Let him be a champion of the Second Amendment, and we will look at him again in 4, 8, 12, or 16 years. Fair?
I am a shooter since the age of 10. I learned to shoot in the Cub Scouts, and have loved it ever since. I have been shooting handguns for over 45 years. I have a license to carry a firearm for neraly 13 years, and I carry every time I leave the house.
I have owned several AK's, and I now own a FAL and 2 Chinese SKS's.
I believe Obama is the most honest and overall best choice for President. I voted for him in the Primary in PA, and will vote for him again in the Presidential Election. I have donated to his campaign, the first time I have ever felt the urge to do so.
I believe the Democrats are not the evil gun-grabbers they have been painted up ti be. I know there are a large number of pro-gun Democrats who are doing a lot to educate the Democratic Party big shots away from the anti-gun bull**** they have stupidly endorsed in the past.
I am voting for Obama, and I just want to make these points clear - Much of the bad stuff said about the man are nothing more than lies.
I wonder if all of the mods have quit over the THR "ownership" dispute.
This thread would have been locked down quickly a couple of days ago.
It sounds like you feel secure that most of your gun ownership years may be behind you and perhaps other issues are more important TO YOU, but most of us are looking FORWARD to 50 years of gun ownership, which more than likely will not enjoy the freedoms you had back in the past.
Trusting Obama on this issue in the face of all he has voted against in the past is nothing more than blind optimism.
That was good, but he still can't lie as cleanly as Bill Clinton. THAT man was a master.
^ Exactly. Obama is nothing if not an eloquent liar. But Clinton was the man. Heh.
Huuuh... you do realize that these are politicians on the campaign trail right? If you have but a single IQ point to your name, you won't take anything that comes out of there mouths at face value.
He is basically asking you to ignore how he voted in the past and listen to his empty words. Well, all I can say is that words are worth nothing, and the only way to know what a politician is all about is to watch their voting practices.
So, I call BS on this post.
Yeah... unfortunately, none of them are running for President in November.
Now that this thread is onto page four, can we quit saying IBTL after everything?
It's going to become a self-fulifilling prophecy at this rate, though this probably isn't the most appropriate place for it...
Anyway, I like that the OP posted this because it shows what the Obama campaign is up to with regards to RKBA.
seems that anarchy now rules, so i changed my sig. line
a couple of points for those who claim "we" are lying about BO.
1. he is the most "liberal" (read that comunist) senator. he votes to the left of uncle teddy if he votes at all. he has a very high "present" vote rate.
2. HE lies, and you only have to listen to his different speeches to see this, he says what the current people around him want to hear. he "changes" his stand more often than i change my socks.
I've got a bridge for sale. Lovely view of New York.
Separate names with a comma.