I don't know jack about M1 Carbines

Status
Not open for further replies.

winknplink

Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
157
Location
W. Kentucky
There is one for sale here locally, but I have no clue as to how to identify its maker or value.

Basic Google and gun forum searches turn up some info on manufacturers, but nothing that can teach me how to identify/label a specific carbine from the next. I hate to ask you guys to hold my hand, but I could use a shove in the right direction. A good link would be great.

Beyond that, what kind of money are we talking here? This particular carbine is in pretty rough condition with no discernible markings and carries a price tag of $459

TIA
 
The first thing you need to determine is if it is a USGI model or a later commercial version. The commercial models are general poor quality and not desirable. If it is a USGI model the next thing to look for is whether it was imported or came from CMP. If it has a stamp on the barrel that says something like "Blue Sky", "Arlington, VA", or "CAI" it was imported and is not as desirable as a gun from the CMP. The USGI carbines have usually been rearsenaled more than once so they are a mix of parts from the various manufactures. Inland models are the most common. The Winchesters are desired by collectors because of the name. The wikipedia page gives a good intro to these guns.
 
If it's a USGI carbine, the maker name should be right on top of the receiver, just behind or under the rear sight. It's in plain sight, can't miss it, serial number is there too.

Most USGI carbines are mixmasters, built from parts by many different manufacturers. They're like this because they've been rebuilt at arsenals, where they typically will take a bunch of guns totally apart, inspect all of the various parts and cull out any bad parts, then reassemble the parts into functioning guns, using new parts as needed.

Since all USGI parts are required to be interchangable, little effort was made to keep the parts from any rifle all together. They just took 'em apart and put all the pieces in bins, then reassembled willy-nilly. I have an IBM carbine, with a Quality Hardware stock made by Rockola, an Underwood barrel, Inland trigger housing, just a whole mess o' stuff assembled together, but I love her just the same!

All original and matching carbines are pretty rare, from what I hear. Usually duffle-bag guns or something that was issued outside the US Military. If that carbine has a two-position flip type rear sight, and no bayonet lug under the barrel, JUMP on it! The vast majority were modified with adjustable rear sights and type 3 barrel bands with bayo lugs. The original early carbines didn't have those features.
 
Thanks to all for the input.

If it's a USGI carbine, the maker name should be right on top of the receiver, just behind or under the rear sight. It's in plain sight, can't miss it, serial number is there too.

I knew enough to look there for info, but all I could make out was a s/n, nothing else visible above or below it. And I didn't think far enough ahead to write the number down. Would this be indicative of an import?

Besides, you can get one from the CMP for about $500...USGI, non-import marked. I did, and I love it.

This seems to be the way to go for someone like me who really hasn't a clue what he is looking at w/o a computer and a manual in his hands. Takes the guesswork out and I'm certain CMP would deliver something in better physical condition than what I handled today.

Thanks again.
 
Before you spend money on it you HAVE to find out what make it is. If it is US mil-spec then it will probably be a good rifle, but if it is a Universal or something aftermarket, it won't be worth the money.
 
If it has the later adjustable rear site (most do) that will hide the manufacturer markings. The easist thing to do is to get a pencil and a piece of paper. Slide the paper under the rear sight, slide the pencil under the sight, and then lightly rub the pencil against the paper to get an impression of the letters in the name.

You should be able to get at least the first few letters after a few minutes experimenting. You may need to try different levels of firmness, or change the angle of the pencil lead slightly, etc.

Once you get part of the name, check it against the known manufacturers of GI carbines, and you should be able to figure it out.
 
Carbines can be tough, due to the number of manufacturers, sub-contractors, and the commercial builders. Parts were also upgraded throughout its service time.

Most major USGI parts will have manuf. code on them, especially of course the prime contractor which should be listed on the receiver as mentioned above near the serial number. (IBM, Underwood, Winchester, Rockola, Saginaw, Inland, Quality, National post Meter, Standard, Pederson/Saginaw Grand Rapids, etc. (10 ttl)).

Some main contractors used barrels from another prime contractor, so a different barrel builder mark (marked near the front sight) isn't neccesarliy bad. (like NPM using Underwood bbls)

Major parts like the stocks, hand guard, slide, the rear sight, the trigger housing, mags, etc. etc. should have builder markings, like "W" for Winchester or "U N", showing it as is a sub-contract built part (there were dozens) for a prime builder, i.e. Union Hardware or Union S&S (U) for National Post Meter (N); or "OI-B" for an IBM (B) subcontractor, SG or S'G' for Saginaw, I for Inland, U for Underwood, RMC for Rockola, etc.

Original WW2 builds are of course worth the most - they should get top dollar, & if in nice condition are hard to overpay for. Some prime contrators are rarer then others...S'G'/Pederson, or are more desirable 'just because' (Winchester). The stock would be cartouched, the manufacturer codes should be correct through-out, part versions should match the date produced, etc.

US arsenal re-builds (all parts updated to the latest by the gov) should get a also decent price - they have collector interest and are fun 'cause they have the bayonet lug and better (rotating) safeties and mag catches - look for an arsenal rebuild cartouche/stamp on the stock and all USGI parts. A DCM gun should have papers to confirm it's history, otherwise it MAY be considered just a "parts gun". Those that have been re-imported into the country will usually have an import mark on the barrel somewhere, and aren't as desirable. Nor are 'parts guns' where someone has mixed and matched things, though still USGI - are good shooters, but should not get top $$$.

Only Inland & Winchester ever built an original carbine with a bayo lug late in the war, so a band with a lug would typically indicate a re-build. Most originals also had simple flip "L" rear sites, so check that too. If the bayo lug has been 'restored' with a older no-lug type I/II band, there is often a bright spot in the finish about a palm's width away from the band up the barrel. If the rear site has been re-replaced with an older L-type one ($$$ these days), there are usually stake marks, or even double serial numbers from the newer adjustable sight install. Early (most original) guns should also have a flat bolt (blued), a 2-rivet hand guard, push-button safety, high wood stock, simpler mag catch.

Many original barrels are still attached to their receivers and in decent shape as the carbine ammo was not corrosive.


You certainly want to start by identifying the builder on the receiver. USGI is a must. You then want to see if you can tell - is it orignal, an import, a rebuild? Is it a DCM with papers? How is the bore? Can you take it down to check part codes? What do YOU want?...a collector, a shooter, a project gun?

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
"...a price tag of $459..." Most likely a commercial copy at that kind of money.
"...The commercial models are general(SIC) poor quality..." Nonsense.
This site will help you identify a commercial carbine. The 'Basic Nomenclature' page is pretty good for parts ID and military issue carbine manufacturer codes.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top