"I Feel Comfortable with My...."

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The objective is balancing speed and precision

Exactly, but they are not equals. When in doubt, lean toward accuracy. Even at the world speed shooting championship, you'll take accuracy, make up shots take time....of course the goal is accuracy with speed, but everyone is not at a grand master level.
 
Show me a gun owner who's been carrying concealed exactly in the same manner he/ she started and I'll show you someone who can find his gun and reloads without thinking about it....because they are where they have always been. The vast majority of the carry rigs people start with can work if people worked with them. New equipment can be bought. Skill...not so much. Just see way too many people flit from gun to gun.
I will totally disagree with a couple of your statements. First, "The vast majority of the carry rigs people start with can work if people worked with them." In my experience, almost all folks who embark on a lifetime of concealed carry do not start with high quality holsters and belts. It's almost a stereotype that new gun owners/gun carriers will spend hundreds of dollars on a quality handgun, only to turn around and attempt to pack it in a flimsy $29 Uncle Mike's nylon holster on a flimsy one-inch belt. I've seen it so often over the years, it's almost tragically comical. I have been a small arms instructor and law enforcement firearms instructor for much of my adult life, and I can count on two hands the number of guys (or gals) I've seen invest in a top-quality holster and belt combination right off the bat. Also, until you've availed yourself of quality training (not your half-day state-mandated class in order to get your state's CPL/CHL/CCW license), you don't know what you don't know about carrying a firearm daily -- and the sad fact is, most people do not get training beyond what's required for them to obtain a license to carry.

Also, are you aware of just how many folks carry a concealed handgun, yet don't keep a spare magazine or revolver reload (speed-loader or speed strip) on their person? You'd be amazed, and I'm pretty sure, very disheartened.

No, for most people, carrying a concealed handgun is an evolutionary process that goes way beyond "flitting from gun to gun." Your initial statement may be true for a very select (and lucky or prescient) few, but I submit it's the exception, rather than the rule.
 
the goal is accuracy with speed, but everyone is not at a grand master level.
The goal is a sufficient number of hits, with no misses, in the right area in the time available.

That could be three to five shots in the area of a small pie plate at ten to twelve feet in a second and a half.
 
It's almost a stereotype that new gun owners/gun carriers will spend hundreds of dollars on a quality handgun, only to turn around and attempt to pack it in a flimsy $29 Uncle Mike's nylon holster on a flimsy one-inch belt
If one hasn't done that, one has seen it, or one has not trained.

Also, until you've availed yourself of quality training (not your half-day state-mandated class in order to get your state's CPL/CHL/CCW license), you don't know what you don't know about carrying a firearm daily
That goes without saying.
 
The goal is a sufficient number of hits, with no misses, in the right area in the time available.

That could be three to five shots in the area of a small pie plate at ten to twelve feet in a second and a half.

I'm aware of that. I happen to be at the grand master level. However, most people never will be. Most people I daresay will never meet the goal of which you speak. So if you can't meet the goal, lean toward accuracy.
 
So if you can't meet the goal, lean toward accuracy.
I have yet to see anyone at a good defensive shooting class who cannot meet that goal consistently after a half day of trying.

Of course, most people who take the trouble to attend a two-day class under a top-tier trainer are likely to be pretty fair gun handlers.
 
Also, are you aware of just how many folks carry a concealed handgun, yet don't keep a spare magazine or revolver reload (speed-loader or speed strip) on their person? You'd be amazed, and I'm pretty sure, very disheartened.

All you have to do is look at a discussion here about who carries a reload and read the "If I can't do it with whatever is in the gun I probably can't do it at all." responses.
 
I will totally disagree with a couple of your statements.

Fair enough. The point I was trying to make, is a person with an uncle mikes nylon holster who actually practiced with it would be likely more capable in a fight than the person who changes to new gear every week. I know you see guys like that too.

At a match a few months back, one of my competitors, who is a great guy that I really like, said "you know, I think you shoot the simplest most basic guns of anybody I know". I replied, "thanks, I think that's as nice a compliment as I've had". To which he replied, "yeah, then you turn around and beat us with them, its downright rude". There is more gain in tuning the shooter than tuning the equipment.
 
Of course, most people who take the trouble to attend a two-day class under a top-tier trainer are likely to be pretty fair gun handlers

Exactly. But, the vast majority of concealed carriers I see can't meet that goal. They see me practicing for a match and want to then go fast. Still, once again, lean toward accuracy. Given a shooter of modest skills, (most people), which is faster in a steel challenge? Five hits with 5 shots or five hits that required 3 make up shots? I can tell you which as it is a constant among people of average skills.
 
It would seem now that a great deal of the disagreement in a thread such as this stems from the fact that some are confusing the "average" concealed handgun carrier with the dedicated gun person who actually trains in shooting and/or other combatives as well as competes in a shooting sport.

I'd submit that the vast majority (probably over 95%) of those who actually regularly carry a concealed handgun have zero interest in further training, don't shoot on a regular basis, and do not compete in any shooting discipline.

These are the folks who are simply -- "comfortable" -- packing a concealed handgun and by virtue of that practice alone, feel as though they are capable of armed defense of themselves, their homes and their families, no extra effort desired or required.

We do far too much projecting in these threads, presuming that EVERYONE who owns or carries guns, is like most of us, competitive in nature, loves to shoot often and to the best of our abilities, loves to train, enjoys researching anything and everything gun-related, historical stuff, philosophical stuff, militaria, cop stuff, tactics, hunting, etc.

Some folks just slap on a gun sometimes and call it good.
 
I'd submit that the vast majority (probably over 95%) of those who actually regularly carry a concealed handgun have zero interest in further training, don't shoot on a regular basis, and do not compete in any shooting discipline.
I'll buy that.

These are the folks who are simply -- "comfortable" -- packing a concealed handgun and by virtue of that practice alone, feel as though they are capable of armed defense of themselves, their homes and their families, no extra effort desired or required. Some folks just slap on a gun sometimes and call it good.
Yep.

Unless or until one of them tries his hand at some real defensive training, they will likely never think otherwise.

Most won't do that. I wouldn't have, had someone not talked me into it. It was an eye-opener.

I wonder if some varied scenarios in a three-sided laser simulation facility might serve to improve people's understanding....
 
I feel comfortable with a minimum of Glock 23/32 + spare mag.
However, comfort is not about minimums ;)
Doing a bit better than the minimum adds a bit more comfort. :D
Glock 35
Speer Gold Dot 180 @ 1,008 fps / 406# KE
Federal HST 180 @ 1,019 fps / 415# KE
Glock 35 with 357 Sig Barrel
125 Gold Dot @ 1,399 fps / 543# KE
125 HST @ 1,415 fps / 556# KE
125 Ranger T @ 1,428 fps / 566# KE - (15 + 1 of ultra comfort :cool:)
 
Why do I not feel "comfortable"? Well, I'm getting older and less fit, the wold around me is becoming more dangerous, and I know that my gun cannot make me safe.

I am not as fast or accurate as I used to be and there is nothing and no one on this planet that can keep me "safe". That does not make me feel uncomfortable. I would say my odds from being killed because of what firearm I have on my person are lower now than when I was a more formidable opponent.
 
I am not as fast or accurate as I used to be and there is nothing and no one on this planet that can keep me "safe".
That was probably true before, don't you think?

That does not make me feel uncomfortable.
Good.

I would say my odds from being killed because of what firearm I have on my person are lower now than when I was a more formidable opponent.
You lost me with that one.
 
Yep, nothing can keep one safe. Doesn't matter who you are.

As to where I lost you; Some of the people that find themselves in the most dangerous of positions often have little to know worries. If they did have any inclination, many would have taken steps to mitigate the situation they now find themselves in.

I have read 1000:1 (or more) threads about what gun, bullet, holster, etc, on what one should have on them once they find themselves in a life or death situation vs what one could do to avoid them in the first place.
 
Capacity was far down the list of factors when choosing my carry gun. More important to me were reliability, shootability (accuracy), ease and comfort of carry, how comfortable I am with the design etc.

It so happens I choose to carry a Glock 19. The fifteen round capacity is nice, but not the reason I keep the Glock on my hip.

That said the capacity does factor into my planning for various scenarios and would certainly make a difference against multiples.
 
... There is more gain in tuning the shooter than tuning the equipment.
... Some folks just slap on a gun sometimes and call it good.

Perhaps we might keep in mind that these observations aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. ;)

Someone who has invested the effort to "tune" themselves might be satisfied with less attention to the nature of their "gear" when it comes to "everyday CCW choices". It's just "gear", after all.

Some might think it necessary to lean toward specific aspects on the "gear side" of the equation to give them the "edge" ... like "caliber", or even some lesser gear attribute under the topic of "caliber", like "velocity".

Well, people do seem to like the comfort of the presence of their talismans, and people have long demonstrated that they can be attracted to, and influenced by, rituals. (Loading a specific caliber or brand of ammunition in their guns, for example. Like lighting a candle at your preferred altar.)

Learn to run the gun, because the gun isn't going to run itself. Running the gun is a user-driven task, and that task requires sound judgment and decision-making, as well as a sufficiently developed amount of familiarity and skill needed to use the gun to meet the task at hand in any particular situation or set of circumstances.

Carrying a guitar around doesn't make someone a guitarist, anymore than carrying a baseball glove and baseball around makes someone sufficiently skilled enough to play any level of game with others. Carrying the guitar or baseball gear might make a lot of folks feel better about themselves, though, as they go about their normal lives. Nothing wrong with that, if that's the extent of what they expect to derive from their possession and carrying of the gear.

Everyone's got to rationalize and justify their choices to themselves.

Very few may ever be required to face situations where they may come to realize the consequences of their choices, and having to learn if their choices will successfully stand the test.

Slightly off track ... The other night I was asked by someone how they could go about learning to safely use a gun. The first thing I asked was their purpose in learning to use a gun. Sport, leisure/pleasure, new hobby ... or defense? Turned out it was comfort against facing a home robbery. The gentleman wasn't sure if a handgun or long gun would be better for him and his family (which included small children).

He was open to the idea of renting guns to find something he liked, learning about firearms safety and having young children in the house, and which kind of gun might best fit him as he became familiar and trained to safely use a gun ... and attending a basic firearms safety class at a local range ... and then attending a class devoted to learning to use a gun for self defense, the relevant laws, etc (including safe storage to keep children and any unauthorized persons from getting their hands on his gun). However ...

I asked him further questions, and began answering his inevitable (but well thought) "What if?" questions, falling back on my time as a LE firearms instructor, Private Citizen CCW instructor and a career in LE (seeing the results of the actions of people, and the consequences of their decisions under stress). The more we discussed situations he'd imagined, and then situations he'd never imagined (or would know how to imagine) ... and discussed various laws and how they were enforced, and some potential real-world consequences of all of them, especially if he made a poor decision under stress ... the less enthused he seemed to become about buying a gun.

He finally said it simply. He said he suddenly realized there was a lot more responsibility and potential liability in having a gun for self defense than he'd previously considered. He's a very intelligent gentleman, and he's aware of risk/benefit considerations. I neither tried to talk him into, or out of, learning to use and buying a gun.
 
If by chance you are a NRA member "The Armed Citizen" column in American Rifleman and or Shooting Illustrated publications, those shooting incidents depicted taken from news articles are probably more realistic of what occurs in the general population. Not every one is a graduate of "Gun Fighter U" This subject seems to another in the series of "lecture subject" that occur on a regular basis. For those not veterans of military service or law enforcement , how many gun fights have you been in????????
 
If by chance you are a NRA member "The Armed Citizen" column in American Rifleman and or Shooting Illustrated publications, those shooting incidents depicted taken from news articles are probably more realistic of what occurs in the general population. Not every one is a graduate of "Gun Fighter U" This subject seems to another in the series of "lecture subject" that occur on a regular basis.
I've been reading those for decades. Most occur in a home or shop, most occur with plenty of warning, all report successful defenses, suggesting an incomplete data set, an attorneys tell us that a fai number of them describe unlawful gun use.

Reports of incidents occurring in the out of doors would be a lot more helpful, as indicated in Tom Givens' Lessons from the Street accounts

I quit much paying attention to them years ago.

For those not veterans of military service or law enforcement , how many gun fights have you been in????????
Four defensive gun use incidents, all successful, no shots fired.
 
Yep, nothing can keep one safe. Doesn't matter who you are.

As to where I lost you; Some of the people that find themselves in the most dangerous of positions often have little to know worries. If they did have any inclination, many would have taken steps to mitigate the situation they now find themselves in.

I have read 1000:1 (or more) threads about what gun, bullet, holster, etc, on what one should have on them once they find themselves in a life or death situation vs what one could do to avoid them in the first place.

This is true.

But I've started a couple of discussions about avoiding trouble and the most common response I see is "By GAWD I'm gonna do what I wanna do. "
 
That's ok. As we all know, trouble can come busting down your door at home. There are still things one can do to buy more time, prepare and or thwart.
 
One's individual circumstances may certainly influence the likelihood of an unlawful vilent attack, but I cannot see how they could define what "we might expect some day" in a manner that would enable us to prepare differently for it.

I'm not going to get into a running gun battle with terrorists or the narco cartels. Some dirtball may choose to attack me, though it's very unlikely. If that happens, I won't be an unarmed victim.
 
I'm not going to get into a running gun battle with terrorists or the narco cartels.
I hope not. You would be toast.

Some dirtball may choose to attack me, though it's very unlikely
For most people, very unlikely indeed.

But if one is attacked, there are as likely to be two or more attackers as one.

What do you comments have to do with the thread?
 
I've been reading those for decades. Most occur in a home or shop, most occur with plenty of warning, all report successful defenses, suggesting an incomplete data set, an attorneys tell us that a fai number of them describe unlawful gun use.

Reports of incidents occurring in the out of doors would be a lot more helpful, as indicated in Tom Givens' Lessons from the Street accounts

I quit much paying attention to them years ago.

Four defensive gun use incidents, all successful, no shots fired.

Claude Werner The Tactical Professor eluded to the NRA Armed Citizen column as a potential source of study as an information source deserving in-depth review. I do not know if he pursued that quest for knowledge. I am not dismissive of the armed Armed Citizen column as you are. There are underlying similarities.
 
We have discussed The Armed Citizen here at some length over the years.

Notice hat the "good guy" almost never loses.

That could mean either of two things : good guys don't lose, or they only capture cases in which good guys win.

Which is more likely?
 
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