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I find it funny that people will be patriotic toward President Bush yet...

Discussion in 'Legal' started by DualBerettas, Apr 21, 2007.

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  1. DualBerettas

    DualBerettas Member

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    make comments toward ron paul who is the only person in Congress with complete understanding of the Constitution and also the only one with PRINCIPLES and has a 100% Constitutional voting record...

    If you listen to him talk about the war on any of his radio interviews he will say that he wanted a discussion and a declaration of war by congress as REQUIRED by the Constitution because the founders did not want a 'king' making the decision on their own...(my insert)
    Bush has violated the Constitution with the so called 'Patriot Act' go read it before you argue with me that it trashes the 4th Amendment...

    Bush has not repealed any gun control nor has he made an effort (as the Republican Party Platform states) to be for smaller, limited government. He certainly has grown the size of government though and is spending more than the democrats some years...

    Ron Paul is a politician with principles and that is rare...

    Ron Paul will be in the debates on May 3 on MSNBC...Fred Thompson is not on the list
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18153983/
    To ask a question during the debate:
    http://www.politico.com/debate/askquestion.html

    We need this man for our country, he is our last hope for small government!

    DB
     
  2. theavocado

    theavocado Member

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    I like Paul too.

    A thinking conservative........rare indeed.
     
  3. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Mr. Bush stands as a Leader that people can get behind and support irrespective of his honoring the oath of office he swore and their understanding of the Constitution.

    Dr. Paul does not, so he does not "click" with them that think with their hearts, rather than their brains.
     
  4. DualBerettas

    DualBerettas Member

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    power corrupts huh...

    executive orders are the same as a dictator making a law on his own..

    DB
     
  5. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "ron paul who is the only person in Congress with complete understanding of the Constitution "

    Oh, come on, be serious. The only person? I don't even know if I can spell hyperbole.

    John
     
  6. pcosmar

    pcosmar member

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    Ok, He is the ONE person in the race with any integrity toward the Constitution.
    We NEED a change.
     
  7. jpk1md

    jpk1md Member

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    I agree that we should not have entered Iraq when and how we did but we're there now and as a country need to bring it to a reasonable conclusion or risk destabilization of the region and loss of yet more respect and power globally.....withdrawal at this point is a lose-lose scenario.

    I don't like Shrub but respect him as POTUS and frankly can't stand the surrender monkey socialist Dem leadership.

    RP would be great if he had a snowballs chance but he doesn't.....he would be an interesting VP for Fred Thompson
     
  8. pcosmar

    pcosmar member

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    Fred is not in the race, Ron Paul is.
    I could see Fred Thompson as VP. He is a good actor, and he acts like a conservitive.
    Ron Paul has a 30 year voting record, and supports the Constitution.
    Ron Paul/Fred, I could go for that.
     
  9. SIOP

    SIOP Member

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    Not funny or difficult to understand at all.

    No REAL conservatives have EVER supported Bush, going way back to before he was elected president. Ergo, Bush supporters are in a totally different political world than are real conservatives and are not likely to be receptive to people like Ron Paul.
     
  10. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    What is a REAL conservative? What do you mean by support?

    I voted for him partly because the alternatives really sucked. I get to vote for Ron Paul now since he is my representative.
     
  11. DualBerettas

    DualBerettas Member

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    go look at some of the votes where it was everybody in congress to 1.

    That '1' is usually Ron Paul and if you read the legislation, he doesn't support it and virtually all of the time it's based on the bill being unconstitutional.

    DB
     
  12. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    Are the comments about Ron Paul to discredit him or concerning his chances of winning?

    It strikes me as odd to pick the least "Republican" of the bunch. Paul is a backdoor libertarian. Just because he is there doesn't mean he should be the model for Republicans who don't care to be libertarians. Only libertarians would feel that way. What you need is more Ron Pauls but not supposing to be compatible with some other political mold. Ron Paul doesn't even try, quick to be the rogue on every question.

    I could see a GOP convention in revolt, if Ron Paul made it as far as that. The convention is not obligated to abide by the primary results.
     
  13. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    That's pretty funny...declaring respect for him while using a mocking nickname. Don't feel like you have to be trendy or apologetic in supporting your President. Like others have stated, he was the best of the lot, the same as many other Presidents. You do your best to be supportive until another election comes around.
     
  14. DualBerettas

    DualBerettas Member

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    republican/libertarian, doesn't matter, He Follows the constitution to the letter and rule of law.

    DB
     
  15. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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  16. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    go look at some of the votes where it was everybody in congress to 1.


    This could be a problem for Paul. A president needs some kind of support from Congress. If Paul had a bill in front of him that was passed everybody to one how hard do you think it would be to override his veto?
     
  17. LkWinnipesaukee

    LkWinnipesaukee Member

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    Read the Patriot Act?

    Have YOU read the Patriot Act?:rolleyes:
     
  18. SoCalShooter

    SoCalShooter Member

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    That's for me to know and not you!
    I like RP, I do not agree with everything that GB has done, but I would take him over AL GORE or JOHN KERRY anyday of the week and I think a lot of people here would also. But as for the THIRD or FOURTH party making a grab at the presidency, I think the American people want a change for sure and he is the way to truly make it. But everyone is stuck in the DEM or REPUB battle.
     
  19. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    Ron Paul is running with a Republican tag this time around.
     
  20. 6_gunner

    6_gunner Member

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    I like Ron Paul. I disagree with his stance on abortion, because I believe that unborn children should be considered individuals who have rights (not to get off-subject). Other than that I think he's right on. I also believe that he's a person who can be trusted to preserve and respect the Constitution.
    I'd definitely vote for him. He's pretty much the only candidate that I'd actually LIKE to see in the white house. All the other ones are just choices between bad and worse.

    I personally like president Bush and support the war, but I think he was way off base in creating the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security. Ronald Reagan would be rolling over in his grave if he knew Dubya had created another limb for the monster of bureaucracy. :what:

    P.S. Is Ron Paul a libertarian-turned-republican? He sure holds a lot of Libertarian beliefs (more power to 'im).
     
  21. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    I think you have two very different concepts mixed up here. One can love one's country and disagree with it's laws and even violate them or enforce them poorly. I think Bush loves this country, I think Ron Paul does also. They just love it a little differently is all.

    As a patriot myself I support the President Bush as president and support Paul as my choice to be the next president. I don't see any conflict here.

    6 gun- You might want to go back and revisit Paul's view on abortion. You may be surprised.
     
  22. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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  23. Chui

    Chui member

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    The ONLY reason Paul "doesn't stand a chance" of winning is because of simple-minded apathy... We sit on our collective asses and allow evil to function "because that's the way the system works." The Founders are rolling in their graves and I'm sure God is losing his patience...

    There is always a price to be paid (usually the butcher) for apathy, self-imposed ignorance and evil. To know and not act responsibly or deny responsibility is evil.

    We have NO excuses.
     
  24. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    Couple of things.

    First, you say we have no excuses. However, I want to point out that for the last couple elections we HAD NO CHOICES. I am willing to wax idealist as easily as the next guy, but I am also pragmatic.

    I DID vote for Bush-- twice actually. (or maybe none-- I was in FL when I voted for him.) I want to point out that in each of those elections the margins were VERY narrow and Bush barely squeeked in.

    Had more persons abandoned the traditional 2 party system and opted for an independent runner, there is a far greater chance in my opinion that the Republicans would have suffered more than the Democrats. In that case, we would have had Gore the first time around and Kerry the next.

    Bush isn't my favorite President by any stretch of the imagination, and he is surely not a true conservative in his fiscal or governmental policies. However, he is a better friend to us than either Gore or Kerry would have been.

    In each election, people probably voted AGAINST Gore and/or Kerry more than they voted FOR Bush. I know I did.


    Second.

    The Patriot Act is an abomination. Regardless of the intentions of the act, it has been misused. No law will ever be held to the spirit of that law-- it will always be held to the LETTER of the law. Therefore, it, like other intrusive laws has been misused. RICO is as much an abused and unconstitutional law as the patriot act, and yet we continue to tolerate it.

    The country went nuts after 9/11. In a vain attempt for security, we allowed lawmakers to pass a law that infringed on our freedoms. Aren't ALL laws seeking security invasions of freedoms in some way?

    I am probably radical when I say that I would prefer to live in a less secure world than one that restricts our freedoms. If we are unwilling to accept the consequences of living in a free state, we are unworthy of the legacy left to us by our founding fathers. Freedom can be painful at times-- Lack of Freedom WILL be suffocating ALL the time.

    I, like many, would face an ethical delimma had I known Bush would have sought legislation like the Patriot Act prior to his election. However, I STILL believe that Kerry would have sought even more draconian measures against our freedoms. He would have simply spun it differently.

    We voted for what we thought was the best of the two. As sad as it is to say this, we probably DID.


    I do see a serious threat to the Republican pary in the future. Currently, our leadership has not been aligned with what I believe is the core of the party. It has proven unable to alter its platforms to reflect the values of those who support it even while alienating those that have been loyal and strong supporters for decades.

    Political parties are nothing more than products for sell. They sit down and package a set of values and positions. They HOPE that the mix they include in their package are of the type that will garner enough votes to win. Both of the major parties participate in this activity. As the Republicans play around with their mix, they will gain and lose supporters--but the will lose at a slower rate than they will gain. People are often reluctant to abandon a party they have supported for years-- its kind of like abandoning your favorite sports team or college. Oh, they WILL abandon a party that does not represent them, but it will take time for them to face the reality that the party has abandoned them.

    In the case of the Republicans, they are playing with the mix. At the moment, the effects haven't fully materialized. However, as time passes, many alientated supporters WILL finally leave. More than not, they will pass to a third party as opposed to moving to the Democrates.

    This is how parties die.

    In my opinion, the real winner of the Republican realignments will be the Liberatarians. I speak to SO many people that always tell me "I vote Republican, but my beliefs are more Libertarian." I know this to be true-- I am one of those people.

    The Libertarians are really an interesting policial party. They are a party whose ideological membership is largely inside of the republican party. The Libertarians seem to be unable to make any strong gains politically, and yet they could actually be a major player in the political arena if all the shared thier views ACTUALLY VOTED FOR THEM.

    In my belief that the republicans benefit more from Liberatarian-minded persons voting outside that party, I believe that the republicans would be most harmed by losing Liberatarian-minded voters. This would surely cost them elections across the US.

    That would be all it takes to kill that party. They would go the way of the Wigs. Mind you, I am not hoping for, or advocating the "killing" of the Republican party. I am merely pointing out that they probably do not realize just how critical the near future is for them. Besides, if they did find themselves gutted of Liberatarian-minded voters, they would have only themselves to blame.

    And I say all this as a registered Republican.


    John
     
  25. GRB

    GRB member

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    Certainly you must mean people will remain loyal to President Bush as opposed to patriotic. Patritotism is not expressed toward an individual but toward a country and all of its citizens.

    All the best,
    Glenn B
     
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