I Find This Reprehensible

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Guyon, Nov 22, 2008.

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  1. Sinixstar

    Sinixstar member

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    Slightly different circumstance. Not to get on a whole off-topic rant or anything, but in the cases of the RIAA, the RIAA already had the IP Address, and evidence that the person that IP Address belonged to committed a crime. They received a court order to obtain personal records from the ISP that provided that IP Address as part of a larger lawsuit, based on the evidence that they already had.
    Now - with no direct evidence of a crime (such as a server log showing that you downloaded songs illegally from a person), if you wanted to go about the same process for a website such as THR - you would have to obtain a court order to get access to server logs from THR, and another court order to obtain access to records from that person's ISP. Not saying it can't happen (it does) just that it's slightly more complicated and requires a bit more doing then simply looking up an IP address and getting a physical address to go with it. (this is a common misconception many people seem to have).
     
  2. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Also, if you are running an open wireless network from your home machine (knowingly or not), there is really no way to tell who was actually doing what online from the IP.
     
  3. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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    Its $40 because it comes with $25 dust(dirt) cover---lololol
     
  4. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Free market. If it's too expensive, people won't buy it. I wonder how many they're selling?

    I agree that saying "list price is $60" is deceptive. But raising the price in a tight market is pure capitalism. Sure, you can have magazines on backorder, and I do. Or, you can pay four times as much to have one now. I know which I would do (have done, actually). The beauty is that CTD is providing a choice to people who are not so patient, or far more wealthy. And yes, that is a legit service they are providing, since none of the other places selling them on backorder for $15 actually have any. They just have the hope of having some in the future.

    And no, CTD can't keep their inventory and keep their prices low, unless they limit sales. If CTD advertised them at the MSRP, they'd be sold out in less than a day, and they'd join the growing list of vendors who have them on backorder, but none in stock. What would be sadly funny is if some of the people giggling now at people paying $60 for a PMAG end up, 10 years down the road, trying to buy those same mags for him $200 a pop because the guy who was dumb enough to buy the $60 PMAG actually got a magazine, instead of a backorder email. No, I don't think that's going to happen, but it could.

    That said, the "list price" bit is underhanded and deceptive.

    Mike
     
  5. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    The fact that a company named "Cheaper Than Dirt" is selling magazines for DOUBLE MSRP is a bit off as well. Then again maybe dirt has gone up.
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    They have been doing that for years. Ya gotta know what stuff is worth, because they will mislead you.
     
  7. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    CTD has a long history of both bargains and non-bargains.

    These days it seems to be mostly non-bargains.
     
  8. MagnumCaliber357

    MagnumCaliber357 Member

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    Does anyone have any idea when this panic buying will let up? To my understanding it could take years for an AWB to be put into legislation, so what gives! If panic buying does not let up could supply increase letting prices come back down....
     
  9. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    If the new administration goes a few months without making noises and without letting the perennial AWB bill get out of committee, the panic buying will let up and supply will again outstrip demand. Prices will drop, if that happens. Once prices start dropping, the people who stocked up in order to sell stuff at a profit may well try to unload what they have before they take a real bath. That could send prices into free fall.

    However, all of this optimism is predicated upon the idea that the new administration will make no moves toward "reasonable gun laws".

    We'll see. I'm not willing to bet that will happen, but I'm also not willing to spend $40 on a pmag.

    Mike

    PS Look for a new wave of panic when the usual suspects submit their annual AWB bill. Nevermind that they've done it each year since 2004, this one will induce the new panic because Obama is in charge. I'll start to worry if it actually garners support and makes its way to the floor (which it very well may).
     
  10. Reid73

    Reid73 Member

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    Everything marketed as "tactical" is by definition overpriced, impractical junk aimed at credulous teenagers. It's hardly a novelty that vendors are making money hand-over- fist from such customers.

    So does anyone else who owns a basic 12 gauge, or deer rifle, and 10 rounds of hunting loads.
     
  11. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Because it is marketing and MRSP is a made up number. Why were Ford F150s going for less than half of MSRP a couple of months back from Ford dealers?
     
  12. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    When the manufacturer lists them on their own website, that is basically MSRP. Otherwise, you won't have very many distributors.

    "Here. We'll sell you this widget for $11. You should sell them for $14. But we're going to sell them on our website for $10."

    Right. There's a business model that's going to work.

    Mike
     
  13. nzo012

    nzo012 Member

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    I went into a store that was selling surplus GI contract 30rd mags for $39.99 each. The type that had the piss shot out of them and someone's name written on them with a marker. Yes the one's you buy a watermelon crate full of for $50.00.

    It's just like the hurricane retailers, bag of ice $17.00, two D cell's $11.95, bottled water more than jet fuel.
     
  14. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Sure glad I bought all the guns and reloading supplies that I did over the last couple years! Got about everything I need now, it'll take me years to shoot it all up, if I ever do.
     
  15. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    No matter how much extra ammo people like/need, none of us are forced to buy it right now, unless we forgot to plan ahead last spring/summer or had serious personal factors. For me it was a brand-new hobby, but ammo and some gun prices had been increasing for many months or years, and there were many dozens of comments and warnings to this effect on many websites and
    random Internet 'burps'...

    If many active shooters last summer were employed with the same salary and cost of living and had access to a tv with cable or dish (full-time news channels), they either didn't know what they wanted or could afford, or simply decided to take a huge risk waiting for the major election gamble.

    Even Several Days after the election there were large numbers of AKs, Saigas, SKS, Mini 14s in good-exc. conditions (maybe ARs) at fairly normal prices at the city gun show here, and few people were looking at any single type, an entire hour after the show was open.
    All else being equal, except for financial problems or working on weekends, about one million people in this metro area had the chance to look and buy, with little or no 'paper trail', just as they did about three months earlier. I saw no lines or clusters of lookers anywhere, except maybe a few by the ARs. Buddies showed me the superb Russian Yugo SKS & Finnish & MN which were bought during opening, at good prices.

    And November panic shopping is never long before Christmas. Was this taken into account?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  16. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    The notion that what the manufacturer sells a product for is basically the MSRP, might I point out that Magpul is NOT selling their product for $14.95 to the public anymore. So using the old MRP as the stated MSRP is a bit silly. The market has changed.

    From the Magpul website...
    MRP and MSRP can be two different things, as may be the case here. Manufacturers don't always sell for a MSRP. They may sell below MSRP or above the MSRP depending on the market. Once again, the MSRP is a made up number.

    What the manufacturer sells an item for is not the MSRP. It IS the manufacturer's actual retail price (MRP) and is not a suggested price. MRP and MSRP are not one in the same necessarily, hence why the MSRP has the S in it.

    MSRP is often used as a marketing tool. First, it entices dealers by suggesting a retail price at which the product might be able to be sold and so can make the product look very profitable. It is also used by the dealers who sell the product below MSRP and who state the MRSP so that Joe consumer will think he is getting a better deal, getting the at at below what the manufacturer suggested.

    In only a limited number of industries or agreements is there a contractual agreement that the MSRP is the price at which the dealer must sell a product. Magpul isn't one of those manufacturers that demands that the dealers sell at a set price. So the notion that undercutting the MSRP is a poor business model doesn't hold water. As I noted, the MSRP is a made up number and since there is no contractual obligation for the dealer to sell at MSRP, there isn't a problem.

    In reality, most dealers don't care what MSRP is stated by the manufacturer. They look at the actual wholesale cost and compare that to what they think they can sell the product for in order to determine whether or not they want to sell the product.
     
  17. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I agree. The problem is that CTD is stating that the "list price" of the magazine is something that I have never seen "listed" anywhere, besides their website (and yes, I do know several people in the industry who are, or were, selling Pmags- now, they're taking backorders like crazy). CTD basically made the number up, as best I can determine. I'm all for the free market, but deception is wrong.

    Mike
     
  18. homers

    homers Member

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    My two local walmarts justed upped the price of their ammo, box of 100 federal shotgun shells now up to 22.97. Rifle ammo up a buck or two each also. Are they passing on a cost increase or taking advantage of an uptick in sales?
     
  19. jkingrph

    jkingrph Member

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    Go price an acre of "dirt"
     
  20. J-Man

    J-Man Member

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    BTW
    Magpul has NEVER raised its prices on any of its products, ever. That goes for Distributor and Dealer prices as well as those for Consumers. While someday that may change due to material and employee cost increases it will never happen because of any sort of buying paranoia.
    The current political climate leading to the massive increase in demand has forced us to concentrate on our Distributors and Dealers right now and all magazine production is being shipped to them. We're shipping tens-of-thousands of PMAGs weekly and once we've caught up with the backlog we'll open the Consumer window again.
    And yes, MSRP is $14.95 for the standard PMAG...

    Justin Beard
    Magpul Industries
    Tech Support / Customer Service
     
  21. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Well. I guess that answers that. :)

    Mike
     
  22. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    And yes it does.

    So is Magpul going to complain to CTD for misrepresentation?
     
  23. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

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    Why all the whining?

    Retailers can list any price they want, it's the consumers duty to shop around for the best price.

    It's your money, you have the ultimate power to decide how you spend it an who you spend it with.
     
  24. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Misrepresentation of what?

    CTD clearly says 'list price'.

    Nowhere do they ever say that 'list price' is defined by the actual Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.

    In fact, 'list price' isn't defined at all, so they have every right to set that number however high they want it. Unless they say 'Magpul suggests selling them at $60', they are not misrepresenting.

    We know that the price is exorbitant for the actual value of the product. We can choose to pay it, or we can choose to shop elsewhere. That's all there is to it.
     
  25. ryanl

    ryanl Member

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    It is misleading to an uninformed buyer.
    If they said Magpuls msrp was $60 it would be a flat out lie.
     
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