WhiteKnight
Member
Amen. IMHO I can't imagine a more justifiable shooting.
I guess I messed up my first car jacking
- Thread starter duckfoot
- Start date
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Amen. IMHO I can't imagine a more justifiable shooting.
ScottS
Member
FWIW, from The New England Journal of International and Comparative Law:
"Colorado attempted to create a statutory duty to report a crime when there exist reasonable grounds to believe a crime has been committed. The effect of the statute was undermined, however, by U.S. v. Zimmerman, (943 F.2d 1204, 1213 (10th Cir. 1991)) in which the United States District Court ruled that the Colorado law did not create an affirmative duty on the part of witnesses to report crimes....Thus, the Colorado statute merely eliminates liability for disclosure or reporting of information. The Zimmerman decision effectively took away the “bite†of the Colorado statute’s mandatory reporting requirement, which demonstrates that careful wording of a statute is essential to its
survival."
I'm still waiting for some documentation for this outrageous statement: "in many states one condition of your CCW license is that you call the police if you ever have to "clear leather"."
Scott
"Colorado attempted to create a statutory duty to report a crime when there exist reasonable grounds to believe a crime has been committed. The effect of the statute was undermined, however, by U.S. v. Zimmerman, (943 F.2d 1204, 1213 (10th Cir. 1991)) in which the United States District Court ruled that the Colorado law did not create an affirmative duty on the part of witnesses to report crimes....Thus, the Colorado statute merely eliminates liability for disclosure or reporting of information. The Zimmerman decision effectively took away the “bite†of the Colorado statute’s mandatory reporting requirement, which demonstrates that careful wording of a statute is essential to its
survival."
I'm still waiting for some documentation for this outrageous statement: "in many states one condition of your CCW license is that you call the police if you ever have to "clear leather"."
Scott
Dex Sinister
Member
Just out of curiosity, is there a statute penalty for failing to do so?
Dex
Well, if he's carrying concealed, and he presents a weapon, that's considered "brandishing" in most jurisdictions, I believe, which can get you in serious trouble unless there's a real or perceived threat of serious bodily injury to oneself or another.
"I pulled my gun on him just 'cause I felt like it" cannot possibly be considered a serious defense in most places.
On the other hand, "I pulled my gun on him cause I thought he was going to beat my head to a bloody pulp with that big pipe" would generally be considered a pretty good reason by most reasonable LEOs.
-twency
_____________
Praying the closest I ever get to this sort of situation is Monday morning quarterbacking.
edited for spelling
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gggman
Member
Is it just me, or is anyone else beginning to have doubts about this attempted carjacking ever really happening?
Why hasn't duckfoot responded to this thread?
Why hasn't duckfoot responded to this thread?
Jeepman
Member
I was just thinking the same thing.
uh ohh... the crowd is starting to turn, it could get ugly
ny32182
Member
I was wondering who was going to step up and say it first. 
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
No Response
John (duckfoot) has a job that sometimes takes him out of town for up to a week at a time. He may be unavailable just now. I've spent time with him
here at home and down on the range. I haven't picked up on anything that would label him as a BS artist. Very straightforward, stand-up kinda guy.
Just FWIW...
Cheers all!
Tuner
John (duckfoot) has a job that sometimes takes him out of town for up to a week at a time. He may be unavailable just now. I've spent time with him
here at home and down on the range. I haven't picked up on anything that would label him as a BS artist. Very straightforward, stand-up kinda guy.
Just FWIW...
Cheers all!
Tuner
Zach S
Member
Yeah, jobs really do cut into social lives.
Then again maybe he got a lawyer that advised him to shut up.
Then again maybe he got a lawyer that advised him to shut up.
gggman
Member
If this is the reason for his silence, and the attack did indeed take place, then I offer my appologies for my skepticism, and eagerly await his update to this story.
Thumper
Member
Wouldn't be real hard to find out.
The Durham Police Dept North Gate Mall Substation # is:
(919) 560-4582
If the investigation is closed, they can probably explain why they behaved so poorly.
The Durham Police Dept North Gate Mall Substation # is:
(919) 560-4582
If the investigation is closed, they can probably explain why they behaved so poorly.
Michigander
Member
One thing I haven't seen pointed out thus far:
If you lie to the police or a judge about what happened, and even if there were no eye-witnesses, the gas station or other facility nearby may have had a security camera in operation that may have recorded the entire incident.
Whether or not the investigation would go so far as to warrant the investigation of surrounding serveillance video tapes might be another matter.
But in this day and age, in public, near any place of business, especially gas station/convenience stores, I think it would be best to assume that your actions were recorded.
Now, about lying about what happened....
If you lie to the police or a judge about what happened, and even if there were no eye-witnesses, the gas station or other facility nearby may have had a security camera in operation that may have recorded the entire incident.
Whether or not the investigation would go so far as to warrant the investigation of surrounding serveillance video tapes might be another matter.
But in this day and age, in public, near any place of business, especially gas station/convenience stores, I think it would be best to assume that your actions were recorded.
Now, about lying about what happened....
After reviewing the Florida statutes, it appears that the CCW instructor who made this statement to me as part of his curriculum was mistaken. He likely misinterpreted the nature of the statute. According to the 2003 edition of Florida Firearms Law, Use and Ownership, "the display of a a deadly weapon, without its discharge, by an ordinary citizen will normally be considered the use of a 'deadly weapon', but it will only be considered the use of 'non-deadly force'." I believe that for some reason he interpreted that as something that required the filing of a report, but there is in fact no statute in the code that I have found to back his assertion on that.
So I apologize to anyone I misinformed with that post, as I was misinformed myself -- excepting that I do not extend any apologies to individuals who by disposition or upbringing are for whatever reason incapable of correcting another person's error in a civil and polite manner. Those people I simply add to the ignore list, as I am getting too old to bother with such unfortunate specimens of social inelegance. It only further coarsens public discourse and there is little need to converse with such people as they inevitably cheapen whatever actual value their opinions have by being bellicose and obnoxious.
duckfoot,
It sounds like you did well to keep your cool. I only hope that if something like this ever happens to me, I can react as well as you did. It must have been very hard not to lose your temper at the cops after the adrenaline rush that you must have been feeling.
You sound like a decent guy and even though you were were screwed with by the cops, I think it was the right thing to do. Maybe now that they know there are people out there that might shoot these thugs, they might do something before one of these poor dears gets hurt.
You did good, don't let the pipe carrying thugs or the thugs with night sticks get you down.
It sounds like you did well to keep your cool. I only hope that if something like this ever happens to me, I can react as well as you did. It must have been very hard not to lose your temper at the cops after the adrenaline rush that you must have been feeling.
You sound like a decent guy and even though you were were screwed with by the cops, I think it was the right thing to do. Maybe now that they know there are people out there that might shoot these thugs, they might do something before one of these poor dears gets hurt.
You did good, don't let the pipe carrying thugs or the thugs with night sticks get you down.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Yeah, like mandatory target practice for every American.
ScottS
Member
Huh? The statement that quote referred to was made by someone else on the forum. It was a broad statement that asserted that "in many states..." a condition of your CCW was some obligation to report if you drew your weapon, as if it's there in the statutes along with training and background check. "Lisencee also agrees to call the Police if he ever clears Kydex." It was a broad, sweeping assertion, and it deserved to be backed up with it's source. Do people accept just anything someone tells them?
This discourse still seems pretty civil to me. In any rational discussion, if someone asserts something as fact, they should be prepared to be asked to back it up. That's a bad thing...how?
Scott
Valkman
Member
I sure wish duckfoot could comment further. I have no doubt that it happened, and I have no doubt that pulling his gun was the right thing to do. What I don't like is not hearing the whole story.
I hope this also teaches me that in this situation it seems that there comes a point when what the police are doing turns from investigating to harrassing, and there is nothing to keep us from leaving. Then I'd seek an attorney to get my gun back. duckfoot did not say if he had a CCW so I hope he was carrying legally.
I hope this also teaches me that in this situation it seems that there comes a point when what the police are doing turns from investigating to harrassing, and there is nothing to keep us from leaving. Then I'd seek an attorney to get my gun back. duckfoot did not say if he had a CCW so I hope he was carrying legally.
The Real Hawkeye
member
I guess if he didn't have a CCW license I could understand why the cops kept his gun, even if I don't agree, on principle, with the requrement to have a CCW license. I would like to know if he had one or not, however.
Bob F.
Member
In my wallet: 1) driver's lic.
2) CCW lic
3) attorney's business card
4) professional lic, etc
Stay safe.
Bob
2) CCW lic
3) attorney's business card
4) professional lic, etc
Stay safe.
Bob
ScottS
Member
Post overcome by events!
Scott
Scott
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glock 21
Member
next time, dbl tap the perps
simply double the perps, in the right place so there's no living witnesses.
Then, call the crime janitors sounding panically stressed. When they arrive, be bleeding from a wound, made ny something near one of the bodies, with its prints only, all over it. A Pipe, knife, broke wine bottle, it won't matter, just have your blood & their prints on it.
Be careful what you say, make it clear your shooting was a last resort to defend your life, not your car, but your life, since the thugs were trying to kill, maime or cripple you physically. Stick to your story. Take it to your grave, never tell anyone. that was anyone, what really happened or it'll come back to haunt you.
Maybe you'll save the next victim from becoming one, sort of a masked hero that no one knows about cept you & the great Creator that created those 2 thugs and gave the "free Will" they used up when they tried going against your Free Will & weapon of choice.
Way to go, just handled it a little incorrectly by todays preverse standards.
:banghead:
simply double the perps, in the right place so there's no living witnesses.
Then, call the crime janitors sounding panically stressed. When they arrive, be bleeding from a wound, made ny something near one of the bodies, with its prints only, all over it. A Pipe, knife, broke wine bottle, it won't matter, just have your blood & their prints on it.
Be careful what you say, make it clear your shooting was a last resort to defend your life, not your car, but your life, since the thugs were trying to kill, maime or cripple you physically. Stick to your story. Take it to your grave, never tell anyone. that was anyone, what really happened or it'll come back to haunt you.
Maybe you'll save the next victim from becoming one, sort of a masked hero that no one knows about cept you & the great Creator that created those 2 thugs and gave the "free Will" they used up when they tried going against your Free Will & weapon of choice.
Way to go, just handled it a little incorrectly by todays preverse standards.
:banghead:
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
Bob F. Did your computer go full auto on ya?
Interestingly enough, I had my first weird encounter with an attempted Carjack this Sat morning only three blocks from my house here in LV. 8:10 AM I was headed to a jobsite meeting (and running late, naturally) had my fanny pack w/ me, driver side window down, just lit a cigarette, elbow had "locked" the door, all others locked, going 20+ mph in a 25 zone approaching an elementary school double crosswalk, no other cars in the immediate vicinity at the moment...
Two young latinos in the second crosswalk walking from my right to my left... so I slowed down. They also slowed down, one continuing walking past the centerline of the street and stopped, the second paused directly in my path... eye contact made with both, fanny pack (which had been on passenger seat) somehow found it's way into my lap, little hairs on back of neck began crawling. I waved the guy in front of me to cross, he waved back stop, (I was creeping very slowly) fanny pack opened, right hand on glock still in lap, first guy said "We need your car" left the crosswalk and walked up to the door as I approached the second crosswalk.
I said "Tell him to move NOW" and swerved left a little over centerline (no oncoming traffic, no one in rear mirror behind me) making #1 back up, gave the little Hyundai some gas as #2 jumped out of the way and drove on, watching in my rear view mirror as they flipped me off.
20 - 25 seconds max.
Hmmm, methinks they was up to no good. Went to jobsite meeting and explained encounter to client who happens to be a Deputy Attorney General for Nevada. Was told it's a really common method of either getting a car or getting a slight injury and insurance award if #2 is bumped as you try to get away. He called someone at Metro for me, gave them my tag#, location, descriptions, yada and we moved on to talk about his house framing, etc.
This I was told by my client, they're in the crosswalk and have the right-of-way only if they remain a pedestrian crossing the street. As soon as they leave the white striped zone or display intent other than crossing the street (loitering, creating a traffic hazard in the street, attempted car jack, etc) they can be found in violation of something that allows police action.
At no time did anyone see the glock. They each had a potential witness to corrobarate story, I did not. You could say I left the scene of a crime (vehicle traveling through pedestrian laden crosswalk) and had I called Metro myself I would have had to explain it all to them and would have been late for my meeting (I'm sure client would've understood). Had I displayed the gun... who knows? Moot point. I had it if I needed it.
Imagine you were an unarmed 16 year old kid or a 40 year old woman in my place (I live with two such who also drive).
Please keep your doors locked, eyes on the road, in condition yellow, off the cell phone, both hands free (I chucked the just lit up cigarette as #1 approached my door). I say all this because my G/F does NOT lock her door (nor do her boys) she is in perpetual condition white or whatever is below that and oftentimes when she gets in the car she fires up a smoke AND the cell phone at the same time. I HATE having her drive and insist I drive whenever we go somewhere in the same car. We discussed this incident at length, and as I said this occured three blocks from our house in a residential zone (for those of you in LV, between Spring Mountain and Flamingo on Torrey Pines at the Katie intersection).
And yet, She thinks me paranoid when we go shopping because I always rubberneck the parking lot when we park going in, I hate parking next to vans or big SUV's, I take too long getting out of the car as I look around and never park close enough to the door for her and when we come out with a full shopping cart and transfer the load into the car, I stop and look around before I stick my head in the trunk or back seat.
It's just a Hyundai...
Now, if the guy (#1) had said "We need directions" or "we need some help" who knows? Their hands were empty at the moment. My right hand was not.
Interestingly enough, I had my first weird encounter with an attempted Carjack this Sat morning only three blocks from my house here in LV. 8:10 AM I was headed to a jobsite meeting (and running late, naturally) had my fanny pack w/ me, driver side window down, just lit a cigarette, elbow had "locked" the door, all others locked, going 20+ mph in a 25 zone approaching an elementary school double crosswalk, no other cars in the immediate vicinity at the moment...
Two young latinos in the second crosswalk walking from my right to my left... so I slowed down. They also slowed down, one continuing walking past the centerline of the street and stopped, the second paused directly in my path... eye contact made with both, fanny pack (which had been on passenger seat) somehow found it's way into my lap, little hairs on back of neck began crawling. I waved the guy in front of me to cross, he waved back stop, (I was creeping very slowly) fanny pack opened, right hand on glock still in lap, first guy said "We need your car" left the crosswalk and walked up to the door as I approached the second crosswalk.
I said "Tell him to move NOW" and swerved left a little over centerline (no oncoming traffic, no one in rear mirror behind me) making #1 back up, gave the little Hyundai some gas as #2 jumped out of the way and drove on, watching in my rear view mirror as they flipped me off.
20 - 25 seconds max.
Hmmm, methinks they was up to no good. Went to jobsite meeting and explained encounter to client who happens to be a Deputy Attorney General for Nevada. Was told it's a really common method of either getting a car or getting a slight injury and insurance award if #2 is bumped as you try to get away. He called someone at Metro for me, gave them my tag#, location, descriptions, yada and we moved on to talk about his house framing, etc.
This I was told by my client, they're in the crosswalk and have the right-of-way only if they remain a pedestrian crossing the street. As soon as they leave the white striped zone or display intent other than crossing the street (loitering, creating a traffic hazard in the street, attempted car jack, etc) they can be found in violation of something that allows police action.
At no time did anyone see the glock. They each had a potential witness to corrobarate story, I did not. You could say I left the scene of a crime (vehicle traveling through pedestrian laden crosswalk) and had I called Metro myself I would have had to explain it all to them and would have been late for my meeting (I'm sure client would've understood). Had I displayed the gun... who knows? Moot point. I had it if I needed it.
Imagine you were an unarmed 16 year old kid or a 40 year old woman in my place (I live with two such who also drive).
Please keep your doors locked, eyes on the road, in condition yellow, off the cell phone, both hands free (I chucked the just lit up cigarette as #1 approached my door). I say all this because my G/F does NOT lock her door (nor do her boys) she is in perpetual condition white or whatever is below that and oftentimes when she gets in the car she fires up a smoke AND the cell phone at the same time. I HATE having her drive and insist I drive whenever we go somewhere in the same car. We discussed this incident at length, and as I said this occured three blocks from our house in a residential zone (for those of you in LV, between Spring Mountain and Flamingo on Torrey Pines at the Katie intersection).
And yet, She thinks me paranoid when we go shopping because I always rubberneck the parking lot when we park going in, I hate parking next to vans or big SUV's, I take too long getting out of the car as I look around and never park close enough to the door for her and when we come out with a full shopping cart and transfer the load into the car, I stop and look around before I stick my head in the trunk or back seat.
It's just a Hyundai...
Now, if the guy (#1) had said "We need directions" or "we need some help" who knows? Their hands were empty at the moment. My right hand was not.
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