I hate to say it ...but some gun owners freak me out a little bit
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Monkeyleg
Member.
Purely anecdotal, from my experience working gun shows for pro-2nd candidates for over eight years: the guys who swear "from my cold dead hands" or "I'll bury them before I'll surrender."
These guys are all talk and no action. They'll fill their pants and turn them in and turn in any neighbors in a nanosecond. It's not that hard to talk tough. Hell, it's not even that hard to go vote, but these neantherthals can't even bring themselves to do that!
These guys are lazy, they're uncommitted and they don't care about anything but themselves.
Find me a guy who's willing to put in a full day every week working for a pro-2nd candidate. Chances are that he's willing to go the wall to defend his rights.
These guys are all talk and no action. They'll fill their pants and turn them in and turn in any neighbors in a nanosecond. It's not that hard to talk tough. Hell, it's not even that hard to go vote, but these neantherthals can't even bring themselves to do that!
These guys are lazy, they're uncommitted and they don't care about anything but themselves.
Find me a guy who's willing to put in a full day every week working for a pro-2nd candidate. Chances are that he's willing to go the wall to defend his rights.
cratz2
Member
A lot of gun owners scare me. Being in the gun shop and hearing some things just slay me. And the gross in accuracies are usually quite entertaining also.
And as noted by someone else, I have a friend that I used to shoot with. He had a Charter Arms 44 Spc that he could not keep on target at 7 yards! I thought it might be the gun but I could keep 5 rounds in the black shooting just about as fast as I could.
And as noted by someone else, I have a friend that I used to shoot with. He had a Charter Arms 44 Spc that he could not keep on target at 7 yards! I thought it might be the gun but I could keep 5 rounds in the black shooting just about as fast as I could.
Re: un-grown ups
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Yeah, but you didn't look COOL.[
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One time I took a .45 from some guy in his mid 40s that had been pointing it all around. I shot a gallon jug full of water with it with the resulting and expected mess.
I unloaded the piece and got somewhat in his face: "You want to do that to ME??!! I take things liike that VERY PERSONAL. The human body is about 90% water. "
I gave him 2 choices, either smarten up or just leave.
He had been publicly humiliated, and left.
About a year later, I saw him again. We exchanged looks, neither of us said anything, but I kept an eye on him for a while. He had learned, and was now a safe shooter.
I gave him a coke, and he actually thanked me for the lesson.
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Yeah, but you didn't look COOL.[
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One time I took a .45 from some guy in his mid 40s that had been pointing it all around. I shot a gallon jug full of water with it with the resulting and expected mess.
I unloaded the piece and got somewhat in his face: "You want to do that to ME??!! I take things liike that VERY PERSONAL. The human body is about 90% water. "
I gave him 2 choices, either smarten up or just leave.
He had been publicly humiliated, and left.
About a year later, I saw him again. We exchanged looks, neither of us said anything, but I kept an eye on him for a while. He had learned, and was now a safe shooter.
I gave him a coke, and he actually thanked me for the lesson.
Mike Irwin
Member
Hey Fender,
You got the Simpsons Simphonic CD for Christmas, didn't you?
You got the Simpsons Simphonic CD for Christmas, didn't you?
Nightcrawler
Member
I was kind of like that a couple few years back. 18 years old, fresh out of Army basic training, thought that any day the UN convoy would come rolling down the block.
I've, eh-heh, calmed down over the last couple years. Became interested in political science and am growing to understand "politcal reality", as well as history and so forth. Amazing what two or three years can do to a person.
I've, eh-heh, calmed down over the last couple years. Became interested in political science and am growing to understand "politcal reality", as well as history and so forth. Amazing what two or three years can do to a person.
PATH
Member
Gee whiz. Does this mean I can now get rid of my Cracker Jacks decoder ring. I was sure either the UN or the Martians were coming!
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I'm not to concerned or worried about those folks who prepair for TEOTWAWKI, just as long as they don't harm anyone (me!) else. They may be right and they may be wrong. But as long as they harm no one it's no big deal.
But those folks that WANT things to go butt over elbows, for whatever reason (and I believe there are more out there than we think), they worry me. They are the ones who, when asked what sort of plans they are making, say something like, "Plans? Well, my PLAN is to use my guns to take whatever I need, from anyone who has what I want. Haven't you heard? He who has the guns makes the rules!". Sometimes I will try to talk a bit of sense into them and if that doesn't work, I suggest giving them plenty of room.
After a few years of growing up, some of them change and some don't. I suspect we would all be suprised at how many folks there are like that out there. But then again, it can be fun to sit on the sofa, eating popcorn, and watching them on CNN as they take on half the world.
Vladimir Berkov
Member
Lol. I think those taped magazines would be the clue.
Even though the AK could deal with the dirt getting in the mag, and AK mag feed lips aren't made out of tin foil like AR mags, they DO have their limits!
Even though the AK could deal with the dirt getting in the mag, and AK mag feed lips aren't made out of tin foil like AR mags, they DO have their limits!
GhostShooter
Member
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Wow am I the only person on here who normally is alone at the range?
JPM70535
Member
The enthusiasm of the young knows no bounds, and sometimes that's a good thing. Those of us who have mellowed over the years would do well to remember how we felt at their age.
All good things come to he who waits..and waits..and waits?
All good things come to he who waits..and waits..and waits?
Counterpoint - ish.
I can see how guns, being very cool all-senses enjoyment devices, can be addictive. I can also see how the self-defence aspects of weapon ownership can slip into the self-proving aspects of testosterone-soaked manchild fantasy. To whit, young $FILLY over there would see what a man I am if only the $OPFOR came over the hill and I could shoot every last man-jack of them. Then she'd love me. Etc.
I think Sonny's post about the handyman summed it up for me. Some people seem to put their gun collection first - and the rest of their lives a very distant second. To me, the ownership and competent usage of a firearm, at the strictly personal level, is about safeguarding what one makes of one's life.
To have a trade, at which I excell to the extent of my innate abilities, is why I'm wandering around metabolising in the first place. To use my mind, and my hands, to create new things, new wealth, and new opportunities is why I get out of bed in the morning. That is the primary goal of my life - do well, make money, have fun, and be as much of a well-rounded human being as I can be.
In time, I will bedeck myself with sufficient self-determination devices to ensure that nobody else can interfere with my process of self-exploration and self-enjoyment. After all, my work harms nobody, brings some people pleasure, and not a single one of the pennies I've made has been at someone else's unwilling expense. However, that's what those weapons will be - a means to safeguard what I've made already. I have no desire to wage war. I do not wish my fellow sacks of mostly-water ill. Frankly, the firearms which I will acquire will simply be there to prevent misguided people from doing me, or those I love, harm.
There's a very pertinent Tolkein quote, which our kind host on this forum has in pride of place on another site of his:
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. (J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers)
I think the people that Sonny's referring to could do with having that simple message explained to them.
Selah.
I can see how guns, being very cool all-senses enjoyment devices, can be addictive. I can also see how the self-defence aspects of weapon ownership can slip into the self-proving aspects of testosterone-soaked manchild fantasy. To whit, young $FILLY over there would see what a man I am if only the $OPFOR came over the hill and I could shoot every last man-jack of them. Then she'd love me. Etc.
I think Sonny's post about the handyman summed it up for me. Some people seem to put their gun collection first - and the rest of their lives a very distant second. To me, the ownership and competent usage of a firearm, at the strictly personal level, is about safeguarding what one makes of one's life.
To have a trade, at which I excell to the extent of my innate abilities, is why I'm wandering around metabolising in the first place. To use my mind, and my hands, to create new things, new wealth, and new opportunities is why I get out of bed in the morning. That is the primary goal of my life - do well, make money, have fun, and be as much of a well-rounded human being as I can be.
In time, I will bedeck myself with sufficient self-determination devices to ensure that nobody else can interfere with my process of self-exploration and self-enjoyment. After all, my work harms nobody, brings some people pleasure, and not a single one of the pennies I've made has been at someone else's unwilling expense. However, that's what those weapons will be - a means to safeguard what I've made already. I have no desire to wage war. I do not wish my fellow sacks of mostly-water ill. Frankly, the firearms which I will acquire will simply be there to prevent misguided people from doing me, or those I love, harm.
There's a very pertinent Tolkein quote, which our kind host on this forum has in pride of place on another site of his:
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. (J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers)
I think the people that Sonny's referring to could do with having that simple message explained to them.
Selah.
Waitone
Member
I "try" to ignore 'em. But I do keep one eye on then and one eye on my target.
I figure if they talk stoopid chances are good they'll do stoopid hence the need to split eye usage.
I figure if they talk stoopid chances are good they'll do stoopid hence the need to split eye usage.
coati
Member
I've had a couple of instructors who were a little like that. Good instructors, wise advice, but just a little too tightly wound when it came to, say, the intricacies of the FBI Matix and Platt shootout in Miami or the physics of hydrostatic pressure.
There used to be a poster on TFL, who, before his threads were locked, would hammer out a hyper punctuation-free rant on topics like these.
There used to be a poster on TFL, who, before his threads were locked, would hammer out a hyper punctuation-free rant on topics like these.
Detachment Charlie
Member
It's In The Eyes
Ever notice that the guys who are so anxious to be in a firefight have never been in one. Just watch the eys of the other guys who are listening. The eyes are either "rolling" or there is that sad, 1,000-yard stare of experience.
Ever notice that the guys who are so anxious to be in a firefight have never been in one. Just watch the eys of the other guys who are listening. The eyes are either "rolling"
or there is that sad, 1,000-yard stare of experience.2nd Amendment
member
I do get a little tired of being told to "calm down". I'm not at all excited when any discussion of World Government and the UN come up. OTOH I know perfectly well it is coming. The course of government evolution demands it. We will have world government(a "New World order" if you like that phrase) and it will come into place by some means like the UN, if not the UN itself as it exists today. We will have a cashless society composed of the disarmed masses taxed to the max to fund the bureaucracy. Those are absolute facts.
When? Who knows. How? I have ideas but, again, who knows. Will the Blue Helmets show up at your door to take your guns...probably not. They'll erode it away generation by generation, same as they slowly elevate your tax rate and incrementally control your "private" property. It'll all be gone without anyone noticing but a small few who are always labeled Nuts. Of course there all sorts of crises, real and manufactured, that could speed it along and provoke open confrontation but, again, who knows.
Talking about it incessantly and running around in full tactical gear is over the top. But realizing it is coming doesn't mean one needs to calm down. I'm actually kind of bored with the idea at this point. I probably won't live long enough to see it and nobody will probably put forth a real effort to stop it so why worry. But don't dismiss it. You're denying the historical expansion of governments and the basic human desire for control of others.
When? Who knows. How? I have ideas but, again, who knows. Will the Blue Helmets show up at your door to take your guns...probably not. They'll erode it away generation by generation, same as they slowly elevate your tax rate and incrementally control your "private" property. It'll all be gone without anyone noticing but a small few who are always labeled Nuts. Of course there all sorts of crises, real and manufactured, that could speed it along and provoke open confrontation but, again, who knows.
Talking about it incessantly and running around in full tactical gear is over the top. But realizing it is coming doesn't mean one needs to calm down. I'm actually kind of bored with the idea at this point. I probably won't live long enough to see it and nobody will probably put forth a real effort to stop it so why worry. But don't dismiss it. You're denying the historical expansion of governments and the basic human desire for control of others.
I know what allof you are talking about perfectly. Ironically though im 16 and have had more of this kind of expirience with people older than me. Except when i try to calm them down i get the death stare from them. I shoot on a 4-H Rifle Team and am starting pistol. I go to CMP clinics when ever i can because theyre fun and sometimes i go to Camp Perry for matches. Anyway i was down at my local range and was sighting in my M-1 Garand (i love that gun so much) in 30-06 and this n00b showed up with a decked out AR. He had rail systems on it and a scope and lasers and flashlights and a flip down bi-pod. He also had this Tac Vest with mags all over it. He came right up to me and told me to move he wanted my spot (the range was full that day) I turned to him and said "Good day to you too. Nice AR how long have you had it?" He said he had just got it yesterday and then proceded to say it was better than my hunk of wood. I told him he could have my spot only if he could shoot 1 shot better than me at 100 yards. He agreed. We waited for the time to go down range and set up a new target. I got down into the prone positition lined up the sites took a breath checked my natural line of sight it was perfect. I squeezed off a shot then checked in thru my tri-pod scope. Right next to the X. I got up and let him check it he saw it and then he layed down and flip down his bi-pod (with some difficulty too might i add they kept wanting to flip back up ) he then made the comment of "im going to pin wheel that X" then he squeezed the trigger and sent of a shot. I checked the scope and didnt see anything at all. Then when we got permisson to go down and check i found his shot in the right 2x4 holding up the target board. I turned and asked him if he sighted it in he said he thought it was automatically sighted in when you mounted the scope on. 
I just gave a slight laugh and told him he could have my spot cuz he needed the time and my sights are fine.
I told him he could have my spot only if he could shoot 1 shot better than me at 100 yards. He agreed. We waited for the time to go down range and set up a new target. I got down into the prone positition lined up the sites took a breath checked my natural line of sight it was perfect. I squeezed off a shot then checked in thru my tri-pod scope. Right next to the X. I got up and let him check it he saw it and then he layed down and flip down his bi-pod (with some difficulty too might i add they kept wanting to flip back up ) he then made the comment of "im going to pin wheel that X" then he squeezed the trigger and sent of a shot. I checked the scope and didnt see anything at all. Then when we got permisson to go down and check i found his shot in the right 2x4 holding up the target board. I turned and asked him if he sighted it in he said he thought it was automatically sighted in when you mounted the scope on. I just gave a slight laugh and told him he could have my spot cuz he needed the time and my sights are fine.RobW
Member
As you said: the basic human desire for control of others PREVENTS a "world government". Even the small counry of Jugoslavia was not able to be united (supressed) under a mutual government. What about the former USSR?
The whole thing is that the HAVENOTS want to get what the HAVES have, and the HAVES won't let go what they have.
That's the reason for ALL wars and the imposibility of a "world order".
All the historical "expansion" of governments lead to their suffocation. Examples abound.
2nd Amendment
member
*scratches head*
The historical march of government is to larger, more centralized and less accountable forms. What the "have-nots" want is immaterial. What matters is how much force the "Haves" can bring to bear to further their goals. That continued march towards more centralized power (force) is what guarantees world governance. Technology is what will enable it.
100 years ago nobody could have envisioned a government so large, wasteful and redundant as ours with the power to directly influence your life via so many means. Anyone who could have would have been scoffed at. Now we not only live with it everyday but are watching it continue to expand.
Perhaps expansion may lead to suffocation, though really it's only one small contributing factor. That's really not the point, though. So what if a Global Government expires under its' own dead weight after a couple hundred years? I don't remember saying it's the end of governmental evolution and whether it is or not, the results are still as abysmal for those who live under it and especially for those who realize what's been lost.
The historical march of government is to larger, more centralized and less accountable forms. What the "have-nots" want is immaterial. What matters is how much force the "Haves" can bring to bear to further their goals. That continued march towards more centralized power (force) is what guarantees world governance. Technology is what will enable it.
100 years ago nobody could have envisioned a government so large, wasteful and redundant as ours with the power to directly influence your life via so many means. Anyone who could have would have been scoffed at. Now we not only live with it everyday but are watching it continue to expand.
Perhaps expansion may lead to suffocation, though really it's only one small contributing factor. That's really not the point, though. So what if a Global Government expires under its' own dead weight after a couple hundred years? I don't remember saying it's the end of governmental evolution and whether it is or not, the results are still as abysmal for those who live under it and especially for those who realize what's been lost.
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Pendragon
Member
The ominous one world scenario may come to be.
But it will not be over night, and it will not be next year.
If people would pull their head our and get involved in the political fight of today, the SHTF scenario of tomorrow will not happen. But then - those guys would not get to show us all how heroic they really are :banghead:
That is really what cinched it for me. Trying to work out the logistics of it all.
Prosperity and productivity will take a huge nose dive if the clamps are suddenly placed on the USA and other productive countries. The "political realities" of trying to do door to door confiscations and concentration camps of patriots/christians/true believers/tinfoil owners/etc is just silly - at least in the forseeable future.
But it will not be over night, and it will not be next year.
If people would pull their head our and get involved in the political fight of today, the SHTF
scenario of tomorrow will not happen. But then - those guys would not get to show us all how heroic they really are :banghead: That is really what cinched it for me. Trying to work out the logistics of it all.
Prosperity and productivity will take a huge nose dive if the clamps are suddenly placed on the USA and other productive countries. The "political realities" of trying to do door to door confiscations and concentration camps of patriots/christians/true believers/tinfoil owners/etc is just silly - at least in the forseeable future.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
I had a class where the guy next to me remarked on several occasions how he was "mad" a the target, getting serious about shooting, focussed on shooting the bad guy, that this was serious business, and other sorts of weirdness. Not surprisingly, he was the one fellow who had a ND during dry fire practice. He was sporting a 6 week old Thunder Ranch Special and brought along 25 Baer mags in a cloth roll-up holder. Very strange man.
Joe Demko
Member
See, the main thing is to stop consuming the nanobots They are putting in the potable water supply. Said nanobots alter the cellular architecture of the brain. The nanobots receive their instructions and energy from microwave radiation, especially cell phones. Their overall goals are murky, but somehow involve spikey-haired mutants, plague zombies, and pancakes. Bottled water, you say? Ha! The nanobots are especially concentrated in bottled water! See how many tools walk about with cell phone and bottled water! Don't be a tool! Guns are only part of the answer. The key lies in the proper use of the all-important cider vinegar in conjunction with precisely directed firepower. I know. I've seen Them in Their lair! I've fought them through seven times seven incarnations and seven times that decarnations and seven times that excarnations and I don't know how much longer I can hold Them off alone! Stockpile ammo, stockpile cider vinegar and AVOID PANCAKES!
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Sure they could. Most of the monarchies were huge, bloated, and wasteful, and they interfered in every facet of life besides. Why do you think Marie Antoinette lost her head? Too efficient? Too little power vested in the monarchies?
How about the Czar's family? Were their secret police just not intrusive enough, or were they just so afraid of wasting public money?
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