I have a 30-06, what more or less does a new rifle in 300 win mag offer?

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datruth

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I want to get into long range shooting , just paper punching, maybe hunting but Unlikly, I have a savage 110 in 30-06 but I see it will be more of a hunting rifle , I want to get another rifle and 300 win mag will be the best bet from what I have read in terms of the applications it has been used for so far, long range shooting mainly, LE/MIL sniping, competition .etc but I would like to know or see some set ups and hear how some of your 300 wins have treated you all so far. And let me say this, I thank all of those that have helped me with all the questions I have had previously, you have treated a serviceman with respect and dignity, and I really appreciate it as anybody would , I just glad to find a site where others love and respect firearms and shooting sports as much as I do.Thanks, Hooah :D my rifle is pictured in the last post http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=318658
 
You should send a PM to Zak Smith. He is pretty much the LR shooting expert of the high road, and though there are other guys that know what they are talking about, he is the one that I would pay first and most attention too.
 
I'm not Zak Smith, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

The difference between the '06 and the .300 Winny is all in our minds, a couple of hundred FPS and a lot more recoil and noise. I know as I currently have three 30-06's and one .300 Winny. To be honest the .300 really does have an advantage with 190 gr. and heavier bullets, the real long range stuff, but you really do pay for it in recoil.

For long range target shooting I would go with one of the following rounds:
.243 Win. (that's what I use)
.260 Rem.

They are low recoil, have high BC bullets available for paper punching, and are decent deer cartridges. In a bolt action with a fast twist barrel these will shoot 1000 yards with anything out there, although they are not the best for 600 yard deer hunting. Lots of other 6, 6.5 and 7mm cartridges are also up to the task, and maybe the 7mm Remington Mag is a pretty ideal middle ground.
 
You don't need a 300 WIN for long range shooting, what you need is a quality rifle and scope. There are a lot of rounds that will perform at 600-1000 yards, but the rifle should be the most important thing to consider financially.

6.5-284 is gaining in popularity for 1000 yard shooting. 6.5x55 is good, as is 308, 30-06, 300WIN, and correct me if I am wrong, but 6x47 a name.

http://www.6mmbr.com/1000ydpg02.html
 
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I have a 30-06, what more or less does a new rifle in 300 win mag offer?
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a LOT more recoil

You really don't want to lay down on top of a .300 unless you have
a REALLY heavy barrel, and a REALLY heavy stock.


...which by the time you build it, and get the glass needed to shoot true "long range" (800 - 1000 yards), you will have spent a REALLY, REALLY lot of money.

Ask me how I know.
 
I disagree. Using the neavier bullets, a 300 WinMag is similiar in Friction coefficient to the 6.5mm cartridges, and a bit more resistant to crosswinds and such. Buying another Savage from a "package" will provide all the extras in a rifle to fully utilize the cartridge, without breaking the bank, like is likely to occur with other calibers. Out to about 1000 yards, other calibers aren't going to really provide an advantage, and 300 WinMag is usually cheaper and componants more availabe. I happeneed to find a used, but apparantly not fired Savage 112VSS, for a little over $400. With the design of the stock and the weight of the rifle, recoil isn't much of a factor. It came in Stainless steel, with the 28" Fluted barrel and the Savage Accutrigger. I haven't done any long range testing and I have shot with the cheaper grade of amunition, so not much to report.
 
I have a 300WM (tikka) that's a real tack hammer. I also have a 308 savage. Guess which one goes to the range with me, whether I'm shooting @100 or 500? The 308. This may sound wimpy, but I'm man enough to admit that the recoil on the 300WM (not to mention the cost) makes it unpleasant to spend the day shooting. I put 100 rounds through my savage yesterday. The last was as sweet as the first, though, it was about 4" low at 300yds, I blame fouling, because, it couldn't have been me. :D

I would NOT have put 100 rounds through that tikka yesterday. The recoil's just too annoying. If I had, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it much.
 
Of the top 20 finishers at the F Class nationals this year, I believe 15 were shooting some kind of 6.5. Only 1 shooter was using the 300. Times change. And a 6.5 does have better ballistics than the 300.
 
The 30-06 is a great all round caliber, thus it does things at range but not as good as the 300WM.

The 300 WM is a great long range game rifle which works OK at close range.

I use the 30-06 for most of my general hunting, I use the 300 WM as a specific long range game rifle. Why compromise for known long range conditions?

Now as to killing power, using the same bullets loaded to top velocities in both rifles, the 300 WM will get to 250yds or so with the same velocity as the 30-06 at the muzzle. I have noticed that the 300WM blows much bigger holes even when the velocity has equalized. I suspect that the RPM's have greatly increased and the radial forces are pulling the expanding bullet apart more as it travels through the deer.

So I have my 30-06 set up with a 3x9 Leupold scope which works for a broad range of conditions.

My 300 is set up with a 4.5 x 14 Leupold scope which works as a long range deer rifle.

I hunt 90% of the time with the 30-06, but it sure feels good to have the scope and horses for longer shots when the situation calls for it.
 
for long range paper, most anything is better than 300winny; that said, firing a 300 with 180 grain or bigger bullets , will get down there real fast, and with a lot of energy, that is why it is preferred as a long range sniper. minimum standards for this seem to suggest a minimum weight 180 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 3000fps or faster, equals long range performance.
However, if we are just talking target shoot, most any bullet rangeing from 6mm to 7mm, using heavy bullets, will get you downrange in a real straight line, without a lot of recoil, and good wind bucking ability, without pounding the shoulder as well. So I would look in this direction first; heck , even a nice 270 wsm will do real fine, or even handloading the old 6mm remmy, would be kinda cool.
 
Hi "Datruth"...

A law of Physics that can help you when you are considering calibers and bullets/loads for long range work is that the ability of a projectile to resist the nasty effects of wind is directly related to how quickly it loses its'velocity. The faster it is losing its' velocity - the more suceptible it will be to being buffeted around by the winds.
The mass, ballistic coefficient and sectional density of the bullet all figure into the equation but the rate of velocity loss can override a lot of any the "gain" from increasing bullet caliber and/or muzzle velocity.
That's one reason why some of the "smaller" calibers (.260, 6.5/.284, 7mm etc.) can outshine the bruisers like the 300 Winnie.
You can see this demonstrated clearly by using a ballisitic calculator that shows wind effect (the Hornady website has one).

HTH, and Good Luck :cool:
 
Very good info here.
Very good thread.

Shawnee beat me to the velocity/wind thing.

I also prefer the 06 for availability of different ammo, and the ability to carry a lighter rifle in the backcountry when I'm hunting.
300 mag is a neat big boomer, but I'm unconvinced that it's so superior I should put down the 06
 
There are several of us F Class shooters who have used .30-06's in 1,000 yard competition. I had a 3rd place finish with mine in 2006. That being said, it is a reloading proposition only, as there are no suitable LR Match loads available commercially. My load consists of a 190SMK moving at slightly more than 2900fps, which is nearly what factory .300WM clocks at. It takes approximately 30MOA from a 100 yard zero to reach 1k.

Don

Win06t1.jpg
 
USSR , what is your set up Im impressed

I was thinking putting a rifle together like that , fluted or heavy barreled, tell me about your rifle set up:confused:
 
In considering 300WM also remember that the cartridge is notorious for quickly eroding barrel throats, and I presume that you will be shooting it a lot.
 
Paper punching and hunting at longer ranges are really 2 different things.

For practical purposes:
The .30-06 shines as a hunting rifle out to about 300 yards.
(Sure some folks are more capable than that with it- but most aren't)
The .300 goes on out to about 500-ish as effectively as the .30-06 does inside 300.

That was the reasoning and marketing factor/pitch when it was developed.
The .300 can do anything the .30-06 does,,, but a few hundred yards farther away.

For target accuracy at long ranges;
there's a lot of cartridges that are more accurate, and less punishing to shoot.

.
 
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USSR , what is your set up Im impressed

I was thinking putting a rifle together like that , fluted or heavy barreled, tell me about your rifle set up
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datruth,

Winchester pushfeed Long Action
Fluted 26" Krieger MTU contour barrel (.930" at muzzle)
McMillan A2 stock with adjustable butt and cheek piece
Williams steel, one-piece bottom metal
Speed Lock firing pin and spring
Jewell trigger
Badger 20MOA picatinny base and rings
Leupold 6.5-20x50LR M1 Mildot scope

Jack Krieger did the smithing work of truing the action, chambering specifically for the 190SMK with a 1 1/2 degree leade, and pillar bedding it. I applied the Teflon/Moly finish myself.

Don
 
As all the rifles I own are chambered in .308 instead of .30-06, perhaps a .300 Win Mag would be a logical step up for me, bypassing the .30-06 entirely. But truth be told, I've no desire to own the magnum or shoot one, and the .30-06 is a much more friendly - and as USSR pointed out - a certainly capable round. If I were in your shoes, since you have already apparently started down the road of setting your .30-06 up as a long-range shooter by adding the Choate stock and bipod, I would do like USSR, and put the money you now intend to spend on another rifle, instead into developing a truly quality long range shooter like USSR's. If you want to buy a hunting rifle later, you can always get one for less invested than the road you have already embarked upon.

But that's just me.

And thanks for your service, BTW.
 
Sure

300 WinMag

More cost per gun, per shot, per reload
More recoil
More noise
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You gotta pay if you want to play. 210 Berger VLD at 2850 fps. I think the 06 will get that up to about 2700 fps. Not too far off.

Heavier bullet that'll retain more velocity/energy. How much better....? The law of diminishing returns most certainly applies. Look at what 300 R.U.M. does with over 100 grains of powder.

Chances are 30-06 will cover most of your needs.

If I were hunting at extreme ranges, I'd give the 300W.M. or even 338W.M. a good look

There's always 30-06 Ackley Improved. That'd be amusing to play with.
 
My vote would be for a 6.5 X 284 Win. I believe that is what was used in creating "The One Mile Shot"...that's a video on ultra long-range shooting. I guess in the end, what matters most, is that you know the trajectory and drift. Shoot what you feel comfortable shooting, and that you shoot well.
 
300 winmag vs 30-06

300 winmag delivers more game killing power for elk sized animals to give you a kill range of about +100 yards, but we are still talking about 500 yards or less.

What it has for it in target shooting? Umm, not much. Slightly flatter trajectory, but then that really isn't relevant, and slightly farther total true max distance, but then that's only really relevant for hitting sides of barns at 2-3 km.

what it has against it for target shooting? Faster barrel wear, fewer shots per dollar.

It seems to me that long range target shooting is about, in the following order, A. The shooter, B. The time spent, and C. The rifle/accessories.

I don't think chambering is relevant, except in how it impacts the above factors. 300 winmag will mean fewer shots per same amount of money, fewer shots before barrel must be replaced, and fewer shots before user fatigue sets in.
 
Datruth;

Just a few years ago I was at the same decision point you're at now. My parameters were different, but the same caliber choices were under consideration. I was looking for a hunting rifle that would give me enough more than the .30-06 I'd been hunting with for decades to justify the cost. I took a look at the practical differences between the ought-6 & the .300 magnum anything & passed on the .300's.

I wound up buying a .338 Winchester magnum. Now, I'm not into 1000 yard competition, but neither will I pass up a viable long shot. As a point of reference to that statement, the folks who think the .30-06 is a 300 yard gun simply haven't studied the cartridge & done the range time IMHO. The old ought-6 is perfectly capable of taking big game animals at ranges that significantly extend beyond 300 yards, if the shooter has done his homework.

I'll also note that most of the F class people who are taking home the wins are using guns firing something in the 6 to 7mm range. I do believe that the 6mm and 6.5mm/284's are the current cartridges in vogue.

The load I've worked up for my .338 is a 225 grain bullet exiting the muzzle at right on 2900 fps. I find it to be perfectly managable as far as recoil is concerned. During load development, I did try loads that exceeded that one & found that the recoil factor went up steeply. Therefore, I can tell you from some experience, that although the .338 Lapua is ballistically interesting, it's gonna let you know when you turn it loose.

900F
 
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