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I love the .25 ACP!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by elcaminoariba, Jan 8, 2011.

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  1. elcaminoariba

    elcaminoariba member

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    I've had so many problems with .22 rimfires (too many duds in bulk packs) that I finally test fired my Jimenez .25 last night. No major problems at all. Enough kick to get your attention. Hollow points available. This thing'll kill an intruder.

    I want to know who else is tired of issues with long cased rimfires and likes the .25 acp. This isn't about a handgun per se, but about the .25 cartridge that so many people like to crap on. I think it makes a great backup.
     
  2. NukemJim

    NukemJim Member

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    Yes a .25 can kill someone, no arguments.

    The real question is will it stop an attack before the attacker kills you?

    A syringe full of Ebolavirus contaminated blood that is injected into someone will also kill them but not quickly enough to stop an attacker.

    NukemJim
    PS IMHO neither .22 nor .25 are suitable for defensive use unless nothing else is available. This is just my opinion and as always I could be wrong. NJ
     
  3. elcaminoariba

    elcaminoariba member

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    Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired. They really run with a bullet in them (if they can). They usually don't take the time to discuss ballistics when they're bleeding and in a hurry to exit. If they are able to run with a bullet in them, they'll get arrested at the ER if they live long enough. I wouldn't recommend the .25 for bear protection tho :D
     
  4. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    A centerfire round is certainly more reliable than a rimfire round.
    From really short barrels it is also often more powerful than a .22LR.

    The downside is the primer itself nevermind the entire round costs as much as a whole .22lr round.
    Removing the typically significant cost savings of a small caliber plinker.



    That may be fine against unarmed people.
    However most situations that will justify lethal force are those where the assailant is armed.
    It is kinda like a good knife, you may be able to defend yourself with it well but considering its use is typically only justified if the attacker is armed, it suddenly seems a lot less adequate.
     
  5. killchain

    killchain Member

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    If you're going to go that small, just get a .380acp.
     
  6. CZ223

    CZ223 Member

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    Good luck with that

    380 is as small as I go. Also, no matter the cartridge, I want a gun that is reliable. Get an LCP or a Kel-Tec in 380 and you will be much better armed. I saw a used Kel-Tec for $180 the other day and would have bought it if I didn't already own two LCPs.
     
  7. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    While it's true that most of the time, if someone knows that he's been shot, his first reaction is to try to get to a doctor. He doesn't know what he's been shot with and he doesn't care.

    But don't count on it. With the little bores like the .22 and .25 and even the .32s and .380s...he may not even realize that he's been shot, and if he's determined, he can do you a world of hurt before the shot takes effect...IF it takes effect.

    If all you have is a .22 or a .25, you have to be cold about it. Shoot for an area that will produce pain and fear. Face, neck, and groin shots are the most reliable, and even that may not have the desired effect. Shoot until the gun is empty, or the attacker breaks it off or falls, or until he catches fire.
     
  8. lloveless

    lloveless Member

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    I was on the rescue squad. We picked up a 20 year old that had been shot in the forhead with a .25 by his uncle(the kid was drunk and threatening his mother). The kid dropped like a rock. When we got there barely coherent(bullet vs alcohol?). He walked out of the ER 2 hours later and still lives today.
    Like others I would/do carry larger caliber weapons. Very few affordable/good quality arms are made these days for the .25 anyway(Jimenez isn't a quality arm).
    ll
     
  9. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I can't say I love the 25ACP. Lots of noise and no punch. With 22's, you need to stop buying bulk packs if you want reliable 22LR ammo. Part of the reliablity issue with 22's is the gun; dirty guns make for more misfires. I would prefer a 22LR myself over the 25ACP even though ignition is technically more reliable in 25ACP. I would choose a revolver, so if there is a misfire, you simply pull the trigger again to cycle the cylinder to the next round. The Smith 317 should do the job just as well or better as a cheapo 25ACP and I would feel safer with it in my pocket. If the small pocket auto is your thing, I'd go with a 380ACP where you begin to see some signficant preformance differences in a pocket auto as compared to the 22LR.

    I have not looked at preformance issues with HP's in 25ACP in a while. Last I recall is that the HP does measurebly no better than ball ammo and ball (FMJ) ammo is more reliable feeding in the little 25 autos.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2011
  10. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Perhaps I am just lucky but so far I have never fired a .22 that was a dud.
    Maybe it will happen in the future.
    Some years ago I was reading the rants of some gun guru who said that the .32 ACP was invented to get the .25 ACP off it's knees.
    Or some such.
    I daily carry a .380 and I might under the right circumstances carry a .32 ACP but I think that's as far down the scale as I am willing to go on a daily basis.
     
  11. vito

    vito Member

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    Many years ago I owned a "Baby Browning" 25 acp semi auto. It was really tiny. Once when I accidentally took it with me on an airplane (long before screenings, x-ray machines, metal detectors, etc.) it fell from my pocket onto the seat and a passing stewardess (not yet a "flight attendant") said: "Sir, you dropped your cigarette lighter". This was my only handgun for a few years until I was on a camping trip and heard the grunt of what I think was a black bear and looked down at this tiny gun and decided I needed something with a bit more punch. I traded the Browning for a 380 Browning and have regretted giving up this little gun ever since. As I recall it, it was much smaller than the Ruger LCP that I now own, easy to clean and as reliable as the Ruger. I wonder if that little Browning is now worth something had I kept it.
     
  12. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    <<<Been looking for a decent Walther Model 8 for several years now.
    Somebody MUST like .25acps because you can't touch a decent Model 8 for less than $600 U.S. now and spare original magazines cost $80-$100 EACH.

    Same thing goes for the Walther TPH in .25 acp but the magazines are a lot less expensive,,,
     
  13. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I ran into a guy that was shot with a 25 auto... the punk emptied the gun on him at close range. I believe he was hit 5 times and still lived. He thought he was dead and saying his prayers.
     
  14. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    I tend to agree with all the above, but where or what .22's are you buying that have duds in them. I've been using CCI Mini Mags for years and haven't had any "duds". They have all went down range. Must be those cheap bulk packs again.
     
  15. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    Sorry, IMO, the 25 is the most useless caliber in major production. Others may think otherwise, and are more than entitled to their opinion, but honestly, i would rather carry my P-22 loaded with stingers or velocitors than any 25 acp. That said, i will never carry a .22 either unless there is simply no other option, but i cannot foresee any such situation. I will stick to my 9mm, and when occasions required, a .380.

    On that note, i will contribute a story about the power of the 25... a friend's father, while working as CID agent many years ago, was caught up in an altercation when his partner was shot with a 25 acp (shot in the side.) so, the friend falls down, the altercation continues and eventually ends with the "suspect" in cuffs. Upon inspection his partner, my friend's father found that the 25 penetrated the first layer of his partner's leather jacket and ended up stopping in his pocket and left a bruise on the skin beneath (think paintball on bare skin..) SO, to the 25 (which is also more expensive btw) i say no thanks... To the Raven 25, i say HELL NO!

    To end it politely, YMMV!
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2011
  16. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    CCI Mini Mags are generally THE most reliable 22LR ammo available that is priced modestly. Remington branded 22LR tend to have more misfires than Federal. I would not load a gun used for protection with Remington 22LR ammo unless that is all I had. Not sure about Winchester as I seldom shoot any.
     
  17. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

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    A female co-worker is a believer in .25. She shot a home invader three times COM, and he had to go to the hospital. But he did so under his own power.
     
  18. hcso617

    hcso617 Member

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    As a Police Officer, I carried a .25 Beretta Jet Fire in my back pocket as my #3 gun. I have to say after seeing a bunch of shootings with that caliber, it's the only gun I have ever sold and not regretted.
     
  19. AIM
    • Contributing Member

    AIM Contributing Member

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    Consider that the muzzle energy of the .25 is only in the 60-80 ft. lbs. range while the .22 Stinger is almost 200 ft. lbs. The .25 is not my idea of a carry or SD gun.
     
  20. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    My aunt used to carry a .25.
    OTOH I've been told that .22RF is actually more powerful.
    I have .22 weapons but I don't use them for self defense purposes, the smallest I have is .32.
    Really, with the guns available today, a .380 or even a 9mm. would be best.
     
  21. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    A friend of mine had one when we were teenagers. We would take it out in the desert and river bottoms, zap this and that with it. The results were never predictable.

    We showed it to a friend of ours who was an old cop. He took off his jacket and showed us a scar on his arm, from when he was a cop in Vegas back in the 60s. It was right below the scar from his smallpox vaccine, and looked the same. He said that he was a motorcycle cop, and he got zapped by someone driving the opposite direction. Said it felt like getting whacked with a fly swatter. He stopped, looked at himself, and he didn't realize he had been shot until he took his jacket off. He felt his upper arm, and the bullet rubbed off in his hand, he still has it.

    Now, when I shoot someone, They may react many different ways. No bullet is guaranteed to do anything. But one result I KNOW I don't want, is for the guy to say; "OW!! That HURT!!"

    I agree with Jeff Cooper's counsel, paraphrased to something like; "If you do ever carry a .25 ACP, do not load it. If it is loaded, you might be tempted to shoot someone with it. If you do shoot someone with it, and they find out, they will be very upset."

    I agree with others. I would rather gamble on rimfire ignition than .25 stopping likelihood.
     
  22. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    Mr. Cooper was sage on most things, BUT I can't agree with the above quip. It's a downright silly quote.

    As for the effectiveness of the .25ACP out of a 2" barrel... Let's put it this way. All things being equal, the .25ACP is more reliable and packs the same or more "punch" (if you can even call it that) than a 22LR from the same length barrel.

    If one has a sturdy stainless steel pocket pistol chambered in .25ACP and is a masochist who handloads the round, then it becomes an almost viable SD weapon.
     
  23. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    There is truth in the gun you have on you is better than the gun in the safe when referring to the convenience of small handguns firing small calibers, BUT we're Interested in stopping an attacker and not in killing them. Stopping an attack is far more easily done with a larger caliber than the .25 if you are forced to shoot. To that end, small calibers like the .22/.25 aren't something we should willingly select if we consider the worst case scenario we carry a handgun to save ourselves from.
     
  24. SoulLessGinger

    SoulLessGinger Member

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    I have found the same thing. At work (firefighter in inner-city) we go to shootings on a regular basis. Seen people shot with all manner of bullets. Have yet to go to some one shot with a .25 that actually died. Had one guy take a round point blank to the face, bullet went in where the nostril meets the face, went around the cheekbone and exited behind the ear. Guy was standing on the street corner waiting for us after the shooter fled.

    Some of this might have to do with the fact that many people are actually carrying hollow-points in this caliber. OP, FYI, this is a horrible idea. There is just not enough energy there for penetration AND expansion to occur. The best performing HP's in .25 ACP (when they do expand) penetrate only 6" of ballistic geletin. And, if I'm not mistaken, the skin alone is equivalent to 3-4" of geletin. Not good.

    Carrying a .25, in a gun fight, you would be completely outgunned by just about anyone with any kind of decent pistol. If your attacker is unarmed he will probably just flee at the sight of a gun, as you say (or he may beat you to death with your empty pistol). But the bottom line is, I don't carry my gun to defend myself against unarmed people. I carry it on the outside chance that I will encounter an armed attacker. And in that case, a mouse gun is at best a back-up gun.
     
  25. HOWARD J

    HOWARD J Member

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    I have a Walther PPK & Bauer in.25 acp.
    These SS pistols are pretty to look at--but--I would not trust them to save my life.
     
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