.25 isn't my cup of tea, but it can get the job done. I'm just glad you found a gun that works for you. Your skill can trump deficiencies in hardware. I'd also stay away from .25 jhps, stick with fmj in order to get enough penetration and better reliability.
I love the .25 ACP!
- Thread starter elcaminoariba
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Here's an interesting read on a study done back in the '90s on homicides and suicides in Milwaukee.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/275/1/42.abstract
Results. —Handguns accounted for 468(89%) of 524 firearm homicides and 124 (71%) of 175 firearm suicides. Handguns of.25 caliber accounted for 14% (n=63) of 438 firearm homicides and 12% (n=15) of all firearm suicides in which caliber was known. The Raven MP-25 was the single most commonly identified firearm and accounted for 10% (n=15) of 153 handgun homicide cases and 7% (n=7) of the 76 suicide cases in which the manufacturer of the firearm was identified. From all data sources combined, information on firearm type was available in 681 (97%) of 699 cases, caliber/gauge in 636 cases (91%), manufacturer/model in 309 cases (44%), and serial number in 276 cases (40%).
Not my caliber of choice and I won't be trading in my 10mm on a .25acp any time soon, but a .25 can kill you just as dead as any other caliber.
No gun not even a measly little .25 should be scoffed at, they can all kill and maim.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/275/1/42.abstract
Results. —Handguns accounted for 468(89%) of 524 firearm homicides and 124 (71%) of 175 firearm suicides. Handguns of.25 caliber accounted for 14% (n=63) of 438 firearm homicides and 12% (n=15) of all firearm suicides in which caliber was known. The Raven MP-25 was the single most commonly identified firearm and accounted for 10% (n=15) of 153 handgun homicide cases and 7% (n=7) of the 76 suicide cases in which the manufacturer of the firearm was identified. From all data sources combined, information on firearm type was available in 681 (97%) of 699 cases, caliber/gauge in 636 cases (91%), manufacturer/model in 309 cases (44%), and serial number in 276 cases (40%).
Not my caliber of choice and I won't be trading in my 10mm on a .25acp any time soon, but a .25 can kill you just as dead as any other caliber.
No gun not even a measly little .25 should be scoffed at, they can all kill and maim.
easyg
Member
No one is denying that the .25 is capable of killing a human.
The problem with the .25 is that it will not reliably QUICKLY STOP an attacker.
It does me no good whatsoever if the bad guy dies hours later AFTER he has bashed my head in with a baseball bat.
Should I ever need to shoot someone, I will want them to stop whatever they are doing immediately!
Friends don't let friends carry a .25.
Tomcat47
Member
I love .25 also.. but for its purpose! I carry mine usually when traveling and say entering a rest area bathroom.
If a problem occurs in this setting it is usually going to be Close Quarters!
I.E. bathroom stall! I enter the rest area with this in mind due to a friend of mine was attacked in this manner. If need to use it arises...they will know they are shot! Close Quarters is up close and Personal, ie point blank and will usually happen fast....be prepared!
The best .25 load is the Hornady 35-gr. XTP-HP round. If it jams, use any Federal, Remington, or Winchester 50 grain ball round. Winchester has an odd 45 gr. "Expanding Point" round that should be OK if it is reliable in your gun (it seems to work fine in Beretta 950 pistols, for example), but don't expect any improvement in performance over the 50 grain ball rounds. The excellent Walther TPH .25 should be loaded with ball.
The Hornady 35 grain JHP should be considered only if it is 100% reliable in your pistol - fire 200 rounds through your gun to see. Ed Sanow recommends the MagSafe 22 grain "Defender" and Glaser 40 grain Safety Slug.
An exerpt from a writing from
Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow
You will find the whole thing at this link which has a lot of info for other calibers as well: http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
If a problem occurs in this setting it is usually going to be Close Quarters!
I.E. bathroom stall! I enter the rest area with this in mind due to a friend of mine was attacked in this manner. If need to use it arises...they will know they are shot! Close Quarters is up close and Personal, ie point blank and will usually happen fast....be prepared!
The best .25 load is the Hornady 35-gr. XTP-HP round. If it jams, use any Federal, Remington, or Winchester 50 grain ball round. Winchester has an odd 45 gr. "Expanding Point" round that should be OK if it is reliable in your gun (it seems to work fine in Beretta 950 pistols, for example), but don't expect any improvement in performance over the 50 grain ball rounds. The excellent Walther TPH .25 should be loaded with ball.
The Hornady 35 grain JHP should be considered only if it is 100% reliable in your pistol - fire 200 rounds through your gun to see. Ed Sanow recommends the MagSafe 22 grain "Defender" and Glaser 40 grain Safety Slug.
An exerpt from a writing from
Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow
You will find the whole thing at this link which has a lot of info for other calibers as well: http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
If it's a close range shot to the heart or brain cavity I'm thinking it will. Again, it's on the lower end of the power scale (and thus requires even better shot placement) but it's not a caliber that can be considered useless for self defense and absolutely incapable of quickly stopping an attacker.
easyg said:
No handgun caliber can quarantee a quick stop on a truly determined attacker.
True you are more likely to get their attention with a larger caliber, but pumping 7 or 8 rounds of .25 into somebody should still give you at least a slight advantage if it does become a hand-to-hand fight.
Well perhaps you should have thought twice about engaging in combat with that fellow and his bat if all you have to defend yourself is a .25.
It doesn't do you much good if he dies 10 minutes after bashing your head in with a bat after you emptied your .45 into him either.
No handgun regardless of caliber can guarantee an instant stop or even that you'll win the fight.
Well yeah don't we all?
Unfortunately handguns aren't especially powerful and humans are actually rather tough and resillient.
Increasing caliber size and power does improve your odds no doubt about that but it doesn't mean that it becomes a magic death-ray. You still have to keep your cool and properly place your shots.
A good well placed shot with a .25 will always be better than a miss with .50 AE.
So don't carry one, but don't kid yourself that someone with a .25 is defenseless.
Perhaps you may indeed win the fight but what good does it do if you die an hour later???
mljdeckard
Member
No, there are no guarantees. But there are degrees of likelihood. In a scale where nothing is perfect, I won't use the option that is DEAD LAST.
mljdeckard said:
Well neither do I but be that as it may the .25 is an option that is capable of stopping and/or killing an attacker.
Are there better options?
Of course there are but the .25 is a gun and as such is capable maiming, killing, and hopefully stopping an attacker.
No I'm not gonna use it for my EDC but I would think twice about attacking someone who had one.
makarovnik
Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2006
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- 1,678
I empty the mag and then a well placed kick in the walnuts will stop 'em.
easyg
Member
Exactly!
Sure, there are no guarantees of a quick stop.
But there are many calibers that offer MUCH MUCH MUCH greater odds of a quick stop than the weak .25.
Considering that fact alone, I can't see any good reason to choose the .25.
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
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- Aug 28, 2009
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- 5,146
I don't know many people that would be able to fight with 9 rounds of .45 shot into their upper chest, high as a kite or sober as a priest on sunday.
mljdeckard
Member
You say "capable of", I think the truth is something more like; "might possibly".
SharpsDressedMan
member
Anyone here on the THR ever been shot with a .25, and want to tell us how wimpy it is?
seantyler09
Member
Personally I would go for the 22 magnum round, I have used this round hunting for years and it has done me very well. I find that the size of the round isn't what really deals the damage it's the expansion. A good hollow point of any caliber will deal the damage needed to drop an assailant.
mljdeckard
Member
Sharps-
I already posted my acquaintance who was hit in the upper arm with one, and when he checked to see what it was, it came out in his hand. I also already asked the reverse question, suppose you had to CHOOSE which bullet to get shot with, a .25 or a 9mm. Now which one sounds worse?
I already posted my acquaintance who was hit in the upper arm with one, and when he checked to see what it was, it came out in his hand. I also already asked the reverse question, suppose you had to CHOOSE which bullet to get shot with, a .25 or a 9mm. Now which one sounds worse?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
For the next chapter in the .25 Chronicles based on my personal but limited knowledge and/or experience...
A guy who I worked and had a passing aquaintance with, and who was fond of partaking of John Barleycorn and whacking his girlfriend of the month around whilst under its influence...whacked on the wrong one in the merry month of May, 1986.
This, despite her informing him that if he laid another hand on her, she'd kill him in his sleep.
The lady took great umbrage at this, and...making good on her threat...after he passed out, she got his .25 pistol from the nightstand drawer and shot him twice amidships while he slept...and went home.
Waking to an intense bellyache several hours later, and being sober enough to deduce what had happend because of the spent cases on the bed and the pistol on the nightstand...he drove himself 15 miles to Forsyth Memorial Hospital in Winston-Salem...and died in the triage area about 15 minutes after his arrival.
Lethal? Sure. Effective? Notsummuch...
A guy who I worked and had a passing aquaintance with, and who was fond of partaking of John Barleycorn and whacking his girlfriend of the month around whilst under its influence...whacked on the wrong one in the merry month of May, 1986.
This, despite her informing him that if he laid another hand on her, she'd kill him in his sleep.
The lady took great umbrage at this, and...making good on her threat...after he passed out, she got his .25 pistol from the nightstand drawer and shot him twice amidships while he slept...and went home.
Waking to an intense bellyache several hours later, and being sober enough to deduce what had happend because of the spent cases on the bed and the pistol on the nightstand...he drove himself 15 miles to Forsyth Memorial Hospital in Winston-Salem...and died in the triage area about 15 minutes after his arrival.
Lethal? Sure. Effective? Notsummuch...
Here in town, a Mexican Chip business owner was robbed and shot multiple times with a .25. He was talking to people at the scene of the crime. Unfortunately he died a month later of blood poisoning from all of those .25 cal. bullets that had to be removed through several surgeries. The moral is, the person could die from being shot with a .25 ,but as far as stopping a drugged- up felon, you need more power than any .25 , especially if you need an instant stop !
dashootist
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2010
- Messages
- 551
Some people don't have the strength and skill to shoot accurately a big caliber rounds in a small pistol. In that case, a hit with a 25acp is better than a miss with a 9x19, anyday.
JW2
Member
I know someone who shot a dangerous dog in the head at nearly point blank range with a .25APC and the dog immediately took off. We both spotted it several days later running around seemingly unfazed.
mljdeckard
Member
Dashootist-
Perhaps they should stay away from small pistols.
Perhaps they should stay away from small pistols.
SharpsDressedMan
member
There was a pawn shop owner who freqented the rec.guns site many years ago. He was attacked by a crazed customer who wanted to buy a gun, was refused, and cam in swinging a samurai sword. The shop owner scrambled for several loaded guns placed around the store, but was cut and stabbed several times while retreating when he realized he had a Beretta .25 in his pocket (the stress of the attack made him focus on the defensive guns he had in the store and forget the light little backup gun in pocket). He drew the .25, and ended the attack, and the guys life, with several (if not all) rounds to the face and head. In another criminal case in the town where I worked, a single round of .25 (to the head) of a drunk and belligerent 300 pound fellow by another smaller, drunk fellow ended the big guy's life, on the spot. Maybe freak luck in both cases, maybe not.
Bulldawg55
Member
I had a nice 25cal. Beretta 950 when I first got my CCW.
I now have a P32 which is my always gun, but mostly as a BUG to a 9mm, 357mag, 357sig, or a 45.
I do wish I still had that 950 though!
I now have a P32 which is my always gun, but mostly as a BUG to a 9mm, 357mag, 357sig, or a 45.
I do wish I still had that 950 though!
pockets
Member
I love 'em too! I have a couple dozen of .25acp pistols. Fun to shoot.
I even carry one now and then just for the heck of it.
I even carry one now and then just for the heck of it.
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