I might have been to harsh on a local kid..

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Umm hmmm.

So if he HAS talked to his parents, what might he have said to them?? Thought about that yet?

DO NOT talk to this kid again without talking to the parents first. Call them soon. Set up a visit. Give them back the toy regardless. Explain the 'what if's' to the 'rents, in case they are as stupid as many are- pull a couple of relevant stories off the internet and print them to take along for the occasion. Apologize for anything you think you need to apologize for, and let it go. Hope nothing else comes of it.

Read this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=145307&highlight=sex+offender

And be careful how you deal with OPK (other peoples' kids) from here on out...

lpl/nc
 
I don't think you overreacted too much. Maybe less the "Sunday school" words. But given the situation I would probably do the same. I would however, go see the parents, tell them what happened and why you took the cap gun. Then if is something you would want to do, maybe take not only the kid, but perhaps the whole family to the range. (sounds as if they don't know the rules of gun safety. Maybe an indication of no guns in the household.)
I don't know about todays kids. When I was 7-10 years old, I used to shoot my dad's 30-06, could safely clean any gun in the house and also had my own .410 shotgun. Dad owned over 75 guns at any given time. We never owned a gun safe. My brother and I were taught to not mess with the guns unless given permission to do so. Ahhh the good old days.... :neener:
 
over-reacted? probably not much, if any. i do agree that you shouldn't let people sneak up on you, though i understand no one is perfect. let us know how the talk with the parents went.
 
gotta disagree with grampster. In this day and age, you should not talk to a kid without his parents present, except for the initial incident. Anything else is a recipe for disaster with people pointing fingers at everyone for sexual misconduct or molestation.
 
YOU OVERREACTED.
My first question; Where you carrying?
If you were and you let some little kid walk up behind you, shame on you. You were in condition White, oblivious to your surroundings.
If you were not and you let some little kid walk up behind you, little shame on you. You were still in condition White.

Cops and Robbers, Cowboys and Indians is fun, thats why we have so many paintball players.

Go to the kid with his cap gun and give it back and give him some training in firearms safety, ALA Eddie Eagle or something like that.
 
You over reacted (way, way, way over reacted) - probably because the kid snuck up on you, scared the crap out of ya and you were embarrased. You're very lucky the kid's DAD didn't come over and whip your @ss! Or worse go down and file assault charges against ya with the local magistrate because that's what you did to that kid as soon as you started in on him.

It was a toy gun and believe it or not kids do know the difference. Firearms safety is irrelevant when we're talking about TOYS assuming the players know the difference! Get over it. At most you should have just made sure he knew the difference between the real thing and a toy. If not then you should have explained the difference to him and sent him home without all the histrionics.

Boys - at least in my day - play with toy guns and other toy weapons. It's who they are and what they do. Unfortunately in the current world of bliss-ninnie antis and the Firearms safety NAZI's that boyhood pass time is becoming less and less common. And so the emasculation of the modern American male continues. Thanks for contributing... :cuss:
 
and I practically ripped the cap gun from his hand. I pretty much yelled at him with a few obscenities, telling him that he better not do that, because he could get killed
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You are not going to teach a young person control (gun safety) if you yourself cannot maintain control (of your anger). The perceived "threat" was in fact just a kid playing. We all did this as kids (I'll hazard). If you're this easily "threatened", but refuse to acknowledge your own condition white status...may I suggest a good perimeter fence?
 
Heh, want to talk about "bliss-ninnies"? Since when, in the real world, is "assault" defined in part as, 'chewing out some stupid kid for coming onto YOUR property and pretending to kill you'? People seem to throw around that word these days, in fact, some the same people that cry that we've gone too "PC" are using the term "assault" rather loosely to mean anything from looking at someone funny to giving someone the finger or calling them a stupid $%#&. I guess it's different when it suits your purposes.

Some facts:
The kid trespassed onto someone else’s private property.
The kid snuck up on a stranger.
The kid stuck a toy gun in the back of a stranger, pulled the trigger and said "you're dead".

Obviously the kid was not taught or didn't learn the rules:
1. Don't go on/use someone else's property without permission.

2. Don't talk to strangers (I am pretty sure this includes sneaking up on them, pointing a toy gun into their back and shooting them, saying "you're dead").

3. Respect adults (elders).

The OP didn't physically hit the child, and he probably didn't react in the BEST way, but I don't think he was completely out of line. That being said, it is true that you have to be careful when talking with other people's kids.


And to those of you that made veiled threats of hypothetical physical violence if this was your kid:

Go ahead, send your unsupervised little rug-rat out in the world with poor home training so he can trespass on someone else's property and act with total disrespect towards adult strangers. It's not the guys fault some people can't train their kids. Supervise your little bastards and keep them off other people's lawns. But don't cry foul when little Johnny pulls that kind of stunt on the wrong person or a cop shoots him cause he's running around pointing cap guns at strangers. If you can't supervise your child, perhaps you shouldn't be breeding then. I mean, to beat someone up because your kid is an ignorant little brat and you're a poor parent is a little extreme don't you think? Just go home and beat your wife for raising the kid and save yourself some time.


'I'm gonna beat you up cause I'm tough and my kid is an ignorant little jerk'. ROFL, priceless.



//Disclaimer// This is directed at no particular or singular individual, it is not an attack on your character or your moral standing. If it causes you concern or anguish, that effect is unintentional. Peace.
 
Err...I guess I'd modify my comment about just speaking to the kid without talking to the parents. I was brought up in the 40's and 50's when it was ok for neighbors to actually talk to kids without worrying about being accused of being a child molester. My original intent still stands, though. sigh......
 
You over reacted (way, way, way over reacted) - probably because the kid snuck up on you, scared the crap out of ya and you were embarrased. You're very lucky the kid's DAD didn't come over and whip your @ss!
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Well the chances of someones father in my area being able to come over an whip my @ss are pretty slim, not to mention they would be stupid for attempting it :uhoh: The kid didn't have any injuries, and if anyone had come over I would have set the story straight.

Well, I went to the kids house, on Sunday, I didn't get an answer at the door, so I left a letter for his parents about what happened, and that they should stop by when they get it. Its Monday now, I have yet to hear from them, I would imagine they might be at work or something along those lines.

My first question; Where you carrying?
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Nope, I don't carry when I am doing yard work, or at all when I am out, no ccw in my state :(

If you were not and you let some little kid walk up behind you, little shame on you. You were still in condition White.
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Well I was in my fenced in yard, that only has one way in, I was putting stuff in the trash bin, which made it a bit hard to hear what was going on around me. I did hear some footsteps, I just figured it was the neighbor returning the rake he borrowed earlier (I still don't know if it was the kid or not). The trash bins and plastic storage garage make it hard for me to see your average kid, I may be tall, but I can't see a short kid if he is behind something bigger then him. I suppose I could be more alert, but it was my lazy day, I was tired, and I really don't feel that I need to worry about people coming into my fenced in yard.

Also, when I re read my original message, it probably seemed like I flew off the handle with anger. In reality I was upset, but I am not the type of person to get really mad over something. I certainly was mad compared to what I am normally, but I really wasn't as bad as I probably sounded, at least I think lol. When I posted that I was still upset too, which didn't help things.

I think its a great idea to take him out shooting, but there are 3 major problems with that. #1 I really don't know his parents, so some random guy wanting to take their son out shooting is typically not considered ok in my area. #2 I own no long guns, and none of my friends own them (only handguns) and #3 it would take atleast 30 minutes to get to a outdoor range. I am not opposed to the idea, I just don't think it would work to well, not to mention after buying a HK USP, my wallet is on the light side.
 
Well, at first I thought you over reacted because the child scared you. I understand that because nobody jumps higher then me when startled.

But after reading nineseven's post, I'm starting to think you should've gunned the kid and his buddies in the bushes too. :rolleyes:


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Greg, speakling from personal experience, terrifying the kid wasnt the best thing to do.

Terrifyed fear= bad
Repsected fear= good (IE telling the parents)

Its always bad to take another persons kid into your hands, lawsuits insue!

Tell the parent about the situation and kindly ask that they encourage a little more safety and common sense than firing a gun at strangers. Also apologize to the kid himself for yelling at him, in the presence of the parents, and let the parents handle it.

Oh yes, and give the cap gun back to the parents.

So you talked to the parents, good. Or at least tryed! Lets hope they arent dumb...arses.
 
werewolf you said that kids know the difference between real and fake guns.

I recall about a year or two ago a 5 year old child I believe bringing a gun to school and pointing it at a little girls head in class and killing her. Maybe this child was playing with a cap gun the day before and really couldnt distinguish the difference.

Kids nowadays and kids when we were kids is about as far of a leap as you can get. I hope my point makes sense.
 
Thanks for the replies.. I do feel bad about the language I used, I didn't mean to. They just came out, I couldn't think of any better words to use. It didn't hit me that he was a kid, since I am used to being around other adults.
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This is just a cursory thought about what you might consider doing. (Please bear in mind that there's potential for the parents to try to have you charged with doing something to their kid, a la forcibly taking something out of his hand, etc.):

1) Scour the papers and internet for news stories about kids who were killed by either cops (preferably) or homeowners, because the kids had realistic-looking fake guns and they were mistaken for real ones.

2) Bring these and the cap gun to the kid's house, and ask politely to speak with the parents.

3) Explain to them that you have come to return the cap gun that their boy pointed and "fired" at you, and that you confiscated it at the time, after a stern lecture that you would like to explain to the boy with his parents' permission and with them present.

4) Explain that you have concerns for the boy and his friends, who apparently have not been taught that all guns, real or fake, should never be pointed at people (with obvious exceptions for real guns being used in defense). Explain the dangers of having such actions taken the wrong way by people who have the means to do something about it -- or the responsibility to, like cops.

5) Show them the stories about kids like theirs getting killed doing just what theirs was doing. Make this seem personal to them. Make them imagine losing their son to "play" that was misconstrued because the "play" was actually a dangerous flirtation with improper gun handling.

6) Ask them if you can apologize to the boy for yelling at him, and explain to them that you think it will help his understanding if he sees that you are not an ogre, but instead are someone who is concerned about his safety, and that you're not mean and nasty and angry at him as a person.

7) Who knows? Are they open to you taking the boy to the range to fire real guns?

-Jeffrey
 
I agree with Michael T. The whole point is they are a toy. I understand firearm safety, but they aren't firearms.
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That's fine, and I agree that kids playing with cap guns and pointing them at each other (and at inanimate objects) is just fine. I did it, and I don't think it was wrong.

What introduces the danger is when kids involve people who are not part of the "game". It's perfectly fine to be doing it with the other kids who are playing. They know what to expect.

And of course, the kids must be clearly and properly taught the infinite difference between it being okay to point a cap-gun at a playmate, and pointing a real gun at anyone at any time.

It's true we don't have to be so rigid that we seem like the schools lately, which will expell a kid and pretend that there is no difference between a chicken finger and a real gun. :rolleyes:


-Jeffrey
 
I understand your anger and taking away cap gun from kid but be careful! A gun store by my house had a Taurus 85ch on consignment once. Story behind it was at condo complex guy lived in skateboarding kid was making noise and causing trouble.

Gun owner grabbed skateboard from and told him parents could pick it up. Parents ended up sueing and filing some sort of criminal charge like theft and some other such nonsense. Guy supposedly lost gun rights and had to spend a lot of $ on a lawyer.

Kind of sad todays attitudes though, I rarely see kids with toy guns anymore but maybe kids making a game of shooting each other is not a good idea though. I do not like being around peoples childrens by myself either in this age of child molestation accusations and such.

At the grocery store today I waved and made a funny face to a little girl who was saying hi to me and my sister freaked out and said not to do that, pretty sad huh? She was probably right though.

I try to be understanding with kids though, I hate the noise and trouble the neighborhood kids make sometimes but I don't want to be known as the grumpy old guy down the street, I was a child once too.
 
At that point I thought it was no laughing matter, and I practically ripped the cap gun from his hand. I pretty much yelled at him with a few obscenities, telling him that he better not do that, because he could get killed.
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GregGry, do you think you sometimes have uncontrollable anger issues? If you could pick one gun which you believe best suits your personality, would you choose "loose cannon"? :p But serious ... Brian Williams and Werewolf probably have the right answer when they say you overreacted. So long as you get out of this without the parents pursuing the matter in an attempt to villify you or try suing for psychological trauma, or some other crazy made up thing, you, the boy, and his buddies will walk away from this with valuable lessons learned.
 
Never fight the enemy on his own terms! Buy yourself a cap gun and plan a counter-attack!
 
I don't think you over-reacted, but I do think you're likely to be neighbors with him ... and his parents ... for awhile. If I may offer a suggestion, I think now that things have (hopefully) chilled a bit, you could heal the breach by apologizing to him for blowing up.

However ... make it a positive experience all around. Call his parents, tell THEM there's something you wish to discuss with them and their son, offer to take them to lunch at Mickey D's, and then sit them down and have a chat. Apologize to the kid for blowing your stack, but explain to him that it just isn't safe today to be sneaking up behind people and poking a toy gun in their back. Sure, cops & robbers or cowboys & Indians with his pals is okay, because all the players know what the game is. But explain to him that when he sneaks up on an adult who isn't clued into the game, bad things could easily happen. Explain to him that you were upset because you realized how close you came to seriously injuring him, thinking you were under attack, and let him know that if he had been injured you would feel very badly about it.

Then make a show of giving him back his "piece."
 
jmho, you over-reacted. The kid is just a kid. You, however, are an adult. You lost control (grabbing the toy gun and yelling/cursing) because the kid got the drop on you. You were startled and embarrassed (again, all jmho).

If you really want to help this kid, find a way to get in front of his dad, and apologize for losing control with his kid. You need to apoplogize for that. Was the kid wrong? Yeah, sure, but he is a kid. They do stuff like that. You can help correct this by doing the required apology (for not handling yourself like the adult that you are), then explaining (not justifying) why you reacted like you did. Fess up. You let the kid startle you, and in front of his friends, and you got pissed. Then ask the parents to understand that you are primarily concerned about the safety of the kid (not from you, but in general), and worried that his actions (sneaking up on an adult and hollering BANG!) might not be the best thing for him to do.

You've got the kid scared to death of you, most likely. If you are truly concerned about the kid, you need to get the parents to understand that the kid needs some parenting regarding his actions.
 
And to those of you that made veiled threats of hypothetical physical violence if this was your kid:

Go ahead, send your unsupervised little rug-rat out in the world with poor home training so he can trespass on someone else's property and act with total disrespect towards adult strangers. It's not the guys fault some people can't train their kids. Supervise your little bastards and keep them off other people's lawns. But don't cry foul when little Johnny pulls that kind of stunt on the wrong person or a cop shoots him cause he's running around pointing cap guns at strangers. If you can't supervise your child, perhaps you shouldn't be breeding then. I mean, to beat someone up because your kid is an ignorant little brat and you're a poor parent is a little extreme don't you think? Just go home and beat your wife for raising the kid and save yourself some time.


'I'm gonna beat you up cause I'm tough and my kid is an ignorant little jerk'. ROFL, priceless.
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Priceless describes this summation in your post, NineseveN. :) I like it!

-Jeffrey
 
Yeah, I know I may be coming off harsh, but if, like many of us I assume may have...if the OP had instinctively turned and drew his gun, he'd be in some trouble. If he shot, he'd be in a ton of trouble. All over a kid whose parents didn't teach him what not to do. It's hard to fault the child, he probably doesn't know any better. But ask yourselves this, if you turned and what the kid had "looked" like a real firearm, would you shoot instinctively or not? Not a situation I want to be in.

How many stories do we see of this same thing happening with police officers in the past? Can you blame them? They want to go home to their families like everyone else, do you hesitate? Do you accept that we live in a country where we've had 10-year olds tried as adults for murder, where stupid parents don't secure their firearms and kids kill themselves or their friends by playing them...it's not a cool situation. Had I just found out I nearly shot and killed a child with a cap gun, I might be shaken up enough to act exactly like the OP did. Granted, he didn't have a firearm, but I am sure the thought process he went through is similar.

Had I witnessed the kids playing with cap guns earlier that day or recently, I might look at this differently. Though I would hope that no one could get the drop on me like that, especially not some kid. Who knows, we all have rough days...
 
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