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I need less spread from my Mossberg

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by heavyshooter, Aug 30, 2008.

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  1. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    I am trying to find ammo that will allow for tighter groups from a Mossberg 500A Persuader 20" barrel. I am getting more spread than I would like from a home defense gun. It does not take a choke so I am trying to find the best ammo. Does any one know what shell this gun likes (manufacturer, shot size, shot type, shell length)? Please consider the fact that I am using it for Home Defense.
     
  2. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    What have you already tried? In two different Remingtons the Federal Premium 9 pellet plated 00 buck and Hornady TAP FPD 9 pellet 00 buck have given me the best patterns. Those two loads also get constant reports of tight patterns here on THR as well. Start there and see how it does.
     
  3. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    I'd try some of the Federal stuff as mentioned with the Flitecontrol wad. Make sure to get the stuff that mentions the Flitecontrol wad on the box.
     
  4. MAX100

    MAX100 Member

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    You can always have the bbl tapped for choke tubes. All of my defense shotguns have had choke tubes installed. Modified choke in my opinion is the best all around choke for tight buckshot patterns. I have gotten good results with Improved Modified choke also.


    GC
     
  5. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    HeavyShooter,

    How far away is your target? An HD shooting is going to be from what, 20 feet max? At that distance, I would personally like my pattern to fill a doorway.

    What is yours like?
     
  6. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    Changing ammo should do the trick for you, cheaper than modifying the gun too. Try any load with FliteControl wads (Federal or Hornady) as mentioned above and see if things don't improve.

    Every barrel does its own thing pattern wise, the trick is to find a load that gives you the results you want. If nothing available does, THEN worry about changing the internal geometry of the barrel. Extending the forcing cone is usually about the most reliable mod to improve buckshot patterns, and it's one of the less expensive too.

    hth,

    lpl
     
  7. ATAShooter

    ATAShooter Member

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    Find the point in your home that you can see the farthest. Pattern your gun at that distance. More than likely in a self defense situation, the intruder will be in the same room ( a way shorter distance ) so the pattern should be pretty darn tight. In the event of a long shot ( say from the bedroom door to the front door ) that's where the pattern will come into play. Other than ammo, lengthen the forcing cone or have her done for chokes ( Nuline guns does it usually 75 - 100 bucks ).
     
  8. auschip

    auschip Member

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    What spread are you getting at what distance?
     
  9. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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    How about 3in mag--00 buck---with 15 pellets???
     
  10. green country shooter

    green country shooter Member

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    There is usually more variation among brands than types. Buy a 5 round package of five or six 000 buck shells and test them out.

    I also would like to know what kind of spread you are getting that is too large. My shotguns shoot a pretty tight buck spread at home defense distances.
     
  11. 4thPointOfContact

    4thPointOfContact Member

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    As others have said, try a few different brands.

    For me, Federal's LE132-00 buck reduced recoil loads with Flitecontrol gives a sub 6-inch pattern at 25 yards.
     
  12. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    "How far away is your target? An HD shooting is going to be from what, 20 feet max? At that distance, I would personally like my pattern to fill a doorway." -- mgkdrgn



    I agree; that is a reasonable expectation from a shotgun. But, I need for it to have good grouping out to about 25-30 yards. I may have noticed the spread because the guy next to me was shooting a shotgun (okay, it was a Remington 870:rolleyes:) and I prefered his results.
     
  13. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    "For me, Federal's LE132-00 buck reduced recoil loads with Flitecontrol gives a sub 6-inch pattern at 25 yards." -- 4thPointOfContact


    The Federal Flitecontrol sounds promising. At 25 yards I am getting 18 inch patterns! At 40 yards it is 40 inch patterns!!! I am aware that I will probably not be shooting 25 yards with an HD shotgun, but if I can get a 6 inch pattern, then I want it.
     
  14. 357wheelgunner

    357wheelgunner Member

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    The low recoil 9 pellet loads from Federal and Remington pattern well in my 20" IC Remington 870.

    I was told that its because the 9 pellet loads stack more uniformly in the shell, 3 in a layer, than other loads. Also, the slower velocity probably deforms the shot less.
     
  15. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    heavyshooter, here are some patterns I did last summer with an 18" IMP CYL barrel on an 870.
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=284837

    At 15 yards, the Federal stuff had about 5" spread. Rio Royal, which appears to be the maker of Wolf Buckshot loads, was 13-15" at that distance.
     
  16. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Lower velocity loads spread less so you could try some reduced recoil buckshot loads. If you are shooting bird shot and trying to hunt with your security shot gun, for whatever reason :confused:, your best bet will be to get a hunting barrel with chokes if you don't have the extended mag tube OR get another shot gun designed for hunting. Either option will be about the same price as putting choke tubes in your riot barrel.

    You really have the wrong tool for what you are asking for. You want a more precise point of impact for defense, use slugs.
     
  17. rantingredneck

    rantingredneck Member

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    I'll chime in as another fan (recent convert actually) to the Flite Control Federal shells. Good stuff there.

    I've also had good results with Remington Managed Recoil and decent results with Remington Express 9 pellet standard.
     
  18. Chihuahua Floyd

    Chihuahua Floyd Member

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    Heavyshooter,
    Like someone else asked, what have you tried?

    Do you want smaller patterns or better pattern density?

    If you can work with better pattern density try smaller shot. Not #8 or 9 but #1 or even #4 Buckshot. I don't even have anything larger than #1 in the house. Never needed it, deer don't know the difference. BG shouldn't either.
    For HD I want to saturate the area with lead. # 1 BS is still .30 caliber, and you get 20 pellets in a 2 3/4" 12 ga.
    If you are looking for a 6" pattern at 25 yds you will have almost no spread at true Home Defense range. Might as well us a rifle.
    My HD creed is fill the doorway from across the room.
    5 rounds times 20 pellets = DRT
     
  19. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    First, measure the longest possible shot opp in thy domicile and add one yard for GPs. Test buck loads at that range and get the one that will print a 5-8" pattern. Probably it will be a top line 00 load, but it could be a 1 buck load.

    Second, get the folks in the house up to speed on putting that 5-8" pattern where it needs to go. Center mass. Why 5-8"? Because the forensics folks tell me that's most effective.

    As for the "Fill the doorway" folks, go stand in the closest doorway. Note all the air between thee and the frame.

    Catch my drift?....
     
  20. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    Jorg,

    Your photos are encouraging. The Rio Royal photos are indicative of what I am getting now :barf:. Thanks for taking a second shot to confirm the spread. I am going to try the Federal Premium Tactical with flight control wad. You guys are a big help.

    Heavy
     
  21. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

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    All my riot guns have had the forcing cones lengthened. That has helped and it shows up in my before and after patterns.

    I like the Hornady TAP ammo as well. YMMV. Get a box or two of some different quality ammo and see what YOUR gun likes. :)
     
  22. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    "...get the folks in the house up to speed on putting that 5-8" pattern where it needs to go. Center mass. Why 5-8"? Because the forensics folks tell me that's most effective.
    As for the 'Fill the doorway' folks, go stand in the closest doorway. Note all the air between thee and the frame." -- Dave McCracken


    Dave and I must have gone to the same school of shotgun HD. He describes my view perfectly. Steve C I am not hunting with my persuader. I believe that 5-8" patterns are more persuasive [pun intended :)]. Consequently I want to tighten my 18" patterns.
     
  23. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    If you're not hunting, then why are you worried about patterns at 25 and 40 yards??...At that range, you are pushing the "SD" range, at least as far as prosecutors are going to be concerned. At inside-the-home distances, which might actually be about 25 FEET, I know MY cylinder choke and 00 will be lethal and tight enough.

    If you really want 6" groups, get a lousy 357 and fire 6 shots at the BG... ;)
     
  24. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    "If you're not hunting, then why are you worried about patterns at 25 and 40 yards??...At that range, you are pushing the "SD" range, at least as far as prosecutors are going to be concerned. At inside-the-home distances, which might actually be about 25 FEET, I know MY cylinder choke and 00 will be lethal and tight enough." -- oneounceload



    I mentioned 25 and 40 yards to give you an appreciation of the spread. I was asked what the pattern was and the only two measured distances I have are 25 and 40 yds. If I get it down to a 5-8" pattern at 20 yards I will be happy.

    I believe that proper shotgun HD is 15-20 yards. The distance from my bedroom to my kitchen is 23 yards, not feet! It is not a huge house but it is a long hallway. By the time it gets to the bad guy I have an 18-22" pattern. Sure, I'll probably hit him but will I shut him down? If he is crazy enough to break into my home, then he will probably be armed. I am not trying to find myself at the "OK Corral." Hitting him with two spheres of shot may annoy him. I once saw an intoxicated man with two .32 auto rounds in him wrestle with his shooter until the police came!!! I have to resonate with Dave McCracken again. I want a pattern that is not too small, but not too large. A 6 inch pattern at 15 yards is my goal. And based on Jorg's findings, I am not being unreasonable.

    As far as the prosecuters perspective is concerned, I find it odd that my proximity to a recognized burglar should be on my mind while he is in my home. Essentially, you are telling me that I have to get as close to the BG as possible to avoid being accused of impropriety. I pray to God that I never have to use lethal force on a burglar (I mean that sincerly), but I am baffled by the fact that I have to close the gap between us to avoid trial. My philosophy of HD is simple; stay away from him and shoot straight! I can sincerly say that I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. Sorry if that was too dramatic ;)
     
  25. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    Heavyshooter,

    "By the time it gets to the bad guy I have an 18-22" pattern."

    That sounds pretty good to me! Think of it this way; if you are filling an 18-22" circle with 00 buck, whats your chance of NOT hitting something vital?

    Can you say the same for a 6" or smaller circle? The delivered energy is going to be EXACTLY the same. Think of the pattern as "fire for effect".
     
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