I need to pick your brains...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Captaingyro, Jun 26, 2018.

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  1. Captaingyro

    Captaingyro Member

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    I am re-writing the rules for our gun club, and need some help. Specifically, I need a term for a firearm that is not demonstrably and visibly "Safe".

    We make a distinction between "Safe" and "other" firearms when specifying how and when they can be handled. Some examples of a "Safe" firearm would be: one with the bolt removed, one with the bolt locked back, one with an empty chamber indicator installed, one broken open (an over-under shotgun for example, or an AR-15 opened at the hinge), a lever-action with the lever open, a double-action revolver with the cylinder open, a holstered handgun, or a cased rifle.

    In the current rules, we refer to any firearm that is not "Safe" as "Loaded". I'm not happy with that term, as I feel it's kind of clumsy and not completely accurate. While we always consider every gun as loaded, a firearm can certainly be unloaded yet not able to be called "Safe".

    What, in your collective wisdom, would be a better term to indicate, "Not able to be considered Safe"?
     
  2. Load Master

    Load Master Member

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    The other terms do not matter, only what is SAFE matters. I would suggest keep the focus on what is known to be safe. Standard NRA stuff works. Example....

    • All Federal, State and Local firearms laws must be obeyed.
    • Safety is the first consideration in using firing ranges.
    • Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
    • Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
    • Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
    • Eye and ear protection is mandatory for all shooters and spectators.
    • No alcoholic beverages shall be consumed prior to or during your time on the range. No drugs, prescription or consumer medications, may be taken prior to or during time on the range that could render the shooter unsafe.
    • Long guns not cased are to be racked or benched with the action open, magazines removed. Pistols are unloaded and placed on a firing bench pointed down range with action open and magazine removed, or cased or holstered when not on the firing line. No one is to go down range until pistols are made safe or holstered.
     
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  3. milemaker13

    milemaker13 Member

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    Safe vs live or hot?

    Are you looking for a term in between safe and hot?
     
  4. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    If you're looking at an alternative for "loaded" why not categorize a firearm as "safe" or "hot." :cool:
     
  5. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    A gun is made 100% safe by an unloaded chamber.

    We have a cold range everywhere but the firing line. That means unless you are on the firing line your gun is in a potentially unsafe condition if you have a loaded chamber. Cold (safe) vs Hot (potentially unsafe) works for me.

    Don't make this any harder than it needs to be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  6. RPZ

    RPZ Member

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    Hot
     
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  7. aarondhgraham

    aarondhgraham Member

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    Howzabout: Unsafe.

    Aarond

    .
     
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  8. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    The “hot” / “cold” areas seem simple and clean relative to area control and a round in the firing chamber; you can word a simple policy to pull these two pieces together. Unfortunately about people and firearms, 99% at any range get it and 1% don’t. No matter how global the rules, the 1% are always there and they are the ones that will accidently shoot you - no amount of documented safety policies are going to protect you from the 1%. I know that the rules must be present and I know that this commentary is not on subject however, my range experience always requires me to watch the people around me no matter the presence of a plethora of safety rules - common sense is not common - range attendee ALWAYS BE AWARE OF THE SHOOTERS AROUND YOU. Maybe a rule mandating that every shooter is required to police the safety rules would work, maybe enhance awareness (or maybe it will cause more range tension - I am not sure).
     
  9. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    So you're looking for a term to describe a firearm that is in such a condition where one cannot easily visually confirm that firearm is unloaded?

    'Hot' works for me. Or 'Ready'.
     
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  10. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    At all the NRA matches I shoot at, you stick an OBI (open bolt indicator) in the chamber, put the weapon down, the line officer verifies that the action is "safe" and out of the possession of the shooters, before anyone goes forward of the firing line.
     
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  11. denton

    denton Member

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    Safe vs. unknown
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Safe = cased, holstered (if your range allows holstered handguns, many don't), action open showing empty chamber, OBI in place.
    Loaded = loaded and being shot with the range "hot."
    Not safe = not in a specified condition of safety, range "cold". Must get to safe condition.
     
  13. denton

    denton Member

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    I like this answer better than the one I posted.
     
  14. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I like "hot."
     
  15. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    What's another word for overcomplicated?
     
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  16. Wisco

    Wisco member

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    Labryinthian
     
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  17. Wisco

    Wisco member

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    What’s wrong with “unloaded” and “loaded”?

    Or “safe” and “ready”?

    Or “cold” and “hot”?

    I’ve never been anywhere where I was confused about what was supposed to happen with my weapon because of linguistic problems or not having just the right word to let me know there should not be a round in my chamber or a mag in the gun.
     
  18. rskent

    rskent Member

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    For years the club I belong to used, "Cylinders open, Magazines out, Chambers empty."
    Now we use, "Cylinders open, Magazines out, Empty chamber indicators inserted into chambers."
    Seem pretty simple and easy to understand.
     
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  19. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    The term for a firearm that is in a condition where the chamber is empty, magazine removed from battery, and the bolt open is "clear." "Safe" is not an advisable term for that condition.

    If the firearm cannot be verified as clear, then it is "not clear" until it is verified. If you want a non-negative term, it would be "charged."
     
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  20. Captaingyro

    Captaingyro Member

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    There are only about six answers here that are responsive to the question asked: Hot, Unsafe (or Not Safe), Ready, Charged, Unknown, and Not Clear. Again, I'm not looking for range commands, or definitions...I need a single word or phrase for use in a written document that spells out our range regulations. That single word, or phrase, should convey the meaning, "not able to be determined safe".

    The reason we'd like to shy away from "Unsafe" (or "Not Safe") is that we want to preserve the idea that guns are not "unsafe"; people are unsafe. The gun is an inanimate object.

    Similarly, "Loaded", which is what we're using now, has some problems. We consider every firearm "loaded", as per Jeff Cooper, so it's kind of sloppy.

    Of all the suggestions, I'm liking "Not Clear" the best. Besides being the opposite of "Clear" it conveys the idea that there's an unknown. It's also the opposite of "showing Clear", which is a well-known term in our pastime.

    Thank you for all the input. If you've got any more ideas, I'm all ears.
     
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  21. LoneGoose

    LoneGoose Member

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    "Not Safe" or "Not Safed"
     
  22. Legionnaire
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    Legionnaire Member

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    Rather than “Safe,” make it “Visibly Safe.” The opposite is the simple “NOT visibly safe,” which is not the same as “not safe” or “unsafe.” The key is that it must be visible to others.

    I like “Clear” and “Not Clear,” too. “Show clear” is a common range command.
     
  23. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

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    Leaning towards 'not visibly clear' 'show clear'...

    Like Legionnaire, I feel one may have to include a caveat (in this case, visibly or show) as its tough to come up with one or 2 words that isn't 'an absolute'.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  24. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Sounds like you either need a comprehensive thesaurus; an English Language scholar; or to make up a new word, and push it into popular usesage to the point it is added to the dictionary. I'm not confident that such a word exists. And if it does it's likely so obscure that most people will not know its meaning.

    But I wish you the best of luck in your search.
     
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  25. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    Well, you need to change the word "safe" on a lot of firearms least someone mistake that to mean that when the firearm safety isn't activated the gun is unsafe, or not in a safe condition.:confused:

    Are these rules for newbies with no previous firearms training or indoctrination? Be sure to let people know when they hit the range.

    I'll look at or rules if I can find them and see how they word that.
     
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