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I see several anti-Bush ppl here..

Discussion in 'Legal' started by willp58, Jan 6, 2004.

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  1. willp58

    willp58 Member

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    We gun guys tend to be single issue voters, I know I am..
    Who, pray tell would make a better president *FOR GUN OWNERS* than Bush??
     
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    James Madison.:D
     
  3. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Lot's of people (Ron Paul for instance) but none of them are running .... :(
     
  4. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    I ain't votin' for a guy who promised to sign the AW renewal when it crosses his desk. Then, there's the USAPATRIOT act, homeland security, and other issues.

    I don't just vote for gun rights, I vote for rights in general.
     
  5. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

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    Someone who would not sign an assault weapons ban. In this case the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
     
  6. willp58

    willp58 Member

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    Let's clarify this a little:
    Who among the present democratic contenders would make a better pro-gun President???
     
  7. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

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    If your only endorsement for a candidate can be summed up as "he'll shaft us less than the other guy," your platform is in trouble.

    Let me turn your question on you: if you keep voting for a Republican, just because they take your gun rights away a little slower, what incentive do the Republicans have to be actively pro-gun? All they have to be is a little less anti than the other guys, because "where else are those gun owners going to go?"

    The end result is still loss of your freedom.
     
  8. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    When you take into consideration Supreme Court openings, "coat tail" electees to Congress, and Bush's stance on CCW, industry lawsuits, and dodging the AWB issue (dodging is his only option, folks: 64% of gun owners support the ban), Bush is clearly the only viable choice for 2nd Amendment supporters.

    I wish he didn't support NICS, but he's miles ahead of anyone else electable.
     
  9. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    I am not "anti-Bush". I have nothing against the man personally.

    But I don't like much of what he has has done, or not done, as president.

    Am I supposed to gush hugs and kisses and accolades all over him because the others are so much worse? :rolleyes:

    I, for one, am getting sick and tired of this garbage that anyone who disagrees with President Bush is a Bush-hater and anti-American and all that. :fire:

    Maybe that's not what you meant, but dissent is not anti-American.
     
  10. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    I am not anti-Bush.

    I am, however, seriously disheartened that Bush has quite obviously turned anti-ME.

    Anti-all-of-us, at this point.

    :uhoh:
     
  11. BigG

    BigG Member

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    I'm a libertrian and I'm OK; I sleep all night and I work all day. /vacuous imagining
     
  12. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Lots of people, but they're all either unelectable, not running, or dead.

    Sorry, I refuse to buy into the "at least he isn't as bad as a Democrat" RKBA rationalization that has so benefitted the Republicans (and turned the NRA into a fund-raising organization for them). I'll believe they're on my side when they start rolling back some of the existing gun laws. Have they done that? No. Instead, we get a promise to renew an existing, and odious, one.
     
  13. DaveB

    DaveB Member

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    I think that the answer is to stop being a one-issue voter.

    db
     
  14. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    False dichotomy. I'll be happily registering a vote with the Libertarian party come election time. Bush supports the AWB, PATRIOT Act, suppressing the 1st amendment via campaign finance reform, steel tarrifs, and the biggest expansions of medicare and education pork in recent memory.

    Bottom line: From where I stand, there is no functional, major difference between the Republicans and Democrats. They all support the same general ideas, they only make a big stink about splitting legislative hairs.
     
  15. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    That's a new one on me...where did you see that?

    Bush said (though Ari Fleicher) that he would sign a new AWB if it was passed by a Republican House and a Republican Senate (once more for those of you who were denied School House Rock: Congress makes laws). He has since REFUSED to repeat it...despite heavy pressure from the press to do so. That is very important.

    Does anyone here know of a legislator MORE in lockstep with Bush than Tom Delay? I have a personal email from him in my inbox assuring me that the new AWB will not pass. A brief search here will show you the entire message.
     
  16. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Either the man meant what he said (i.e. he would sign it) or he didn't. If he meant it, he is no friend of the RKBA. If he didn't, he is a liar and not someone I would trust on any matter.
     
  17. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    I'm absolutely certain he meant he'd sign it, putting the onus where it belongs: On Congress.

    Congress=Legislative Branch
     
  18. Bill Hook

    Bill Hook member

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    How many pols aren't liars?

    Name them.
     
  19. Jonesy9

    Jonesy9 member

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    good question. It's too bad we have a powerful incumbent and a party that prevents other candidates from even being considered. Democracy loses it's greatest benefits when sole pursuit of power trumps an educated debate.

    Bush has proven to be nothing more than a face man for the entreched party elders. It's like a rehash of the first Bush admin. Same faces and players who haven't had an original idea since the Ford administration. Sure, they formed an alliance with the so called Neo-cons and pulled them away from McCain but that's a whole other debate.

    I have no doubt that the current leadership of the GOP would toss gun owners and the NRA aside in a heartbeat if it was expedient and they's gain more votes or pick up a new block of voters like hispanics. Bush bactracked on states rights, free trade, buudget deficites, reining in spending etc etc. He has tossed a few bones to the religious right but nothing substantial. I would not be one bit surprised to see gun owners betrayed next.

    I was hoping Kerry would have been my man. He's a vet with confirmed combat kills, prosecutor and has foreign policy experience. Then he proved he's just like the rest of the pols and saw a chance to grab some votes by appeasing the anti's. Buh Bye.

    Whos' the best now? I'd have to learn more about Leiberman, he appears to be more of a conservative than Bush. Other than that, none of them, from either party really make me feel safe about gun rights.

    This election is ripe for a thrid party candidate to steal (not libertarian, more populist sonservative). If there was a principled conservative with the balls to buck the Bush death grip on the GOP and lay out the right platform as a that wasn't completely poll driven they'd have my vote.
     
  20. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter member

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    His eagerness to sign the AWB renewal showed his true colors: he is no defender of guns rights or anything else that is not on his personal agenda, he's just a politician trying to minimize the number of people he pisses off to maximize his chances for re-election. Whatever comes out of his mouth on any given day is directed towards that end. He may not be aggressively pushing for increased gun controls, but he is doing exactly nothing to correct the problems that already exist. FWIW, I have yet to see any repub who puts his actions where his mouth is when it comes to actually advocating gun owners rights. They just "rattle the bones" of the gun control issue to get people to charge to the polls and vote republican because voters think that democrats would be worse (which is probably true). But being "slightly less worse" on an issue is a hell of a long way from being an advocate of it.
     
  21. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    The OP wasn't about congress. It was about POTUS. Bush said he would sign a renewed ban. I don't see how that makes him a friend of RKBA.

    To paraphrase something my mother used to say "If all the other politicians were child molesters, would that make it okay for Bush to be one too?"
     
  22. willp58

    willp58 Member

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    We could agree that Bush is not an active defender of gunrights...And yes, he *LIKE ALL THE OTHERS* is a politician..(redundant words)
    We can wish for some other progun person...However like my pappy used to say, " Ya wish in one hand and chit in the other -- see which one fills up first"..

    Realistically one of the dem candidates in the news at this time will be running against Bush in November...Like it or not...that's the way it's gonna play out!

    A vote for Alfred A Newman or some other fringy is a wasted vote -- You might vote for Alfie to "feel good" but the reality is......Wasted vote.

    SO after all that - which one of the present contenders would be better than Bush for the honest gunowner????
     
  23. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Willp58

    Can you provide a citation for this figure? Sounds very high.

    As for Bush, Joe Lieberman's views on gun control are not substantially different from Bush's, maybe even a little better when you consider Lieberman pushed for the State bailout of Colt some years ago, something Bush would probably have opposed.

    Lieberman would be a "better" choice for gun owners assuming a Republican Congress. With Lieberman as POTUS the Republicans in Congress would be much less likely to pass any more foolish restrictions. Lieberman also supports the lawsuit pre-emption bill as does Bush.

    I'll take the centrist Democrat Lieberman over the Liberal Democrat Bush.
     
  24. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Verbal per Alan Gottlieb, the NRA-ILA's statistical guru...Jim March and Lennyjoe can back me up on this...they were there.
     
  25. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Pretty disappointing. You'd expect better from gun owners of any kind.
     
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