Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

I Still Have My Guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Boogyman, Jan 16, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Boogyman

    Boogyman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Southern Missouri
    US Presidents List

    No. President's Name Life Span Place of Birth Presidency Political Party
    DoB DoD Date from to Date
    1 George Washington 22 Feb 1732 14 Dec 1799 Westmoreland County, Virginia 30 Apr 1789 04 Mar1797 no party
    2 John Adams 30 Oct 1735 04 Jul 1826 Braintree, Norfolk, Massachusetts 04 Mar 1797 04 Mar 801 Federalist
    3 Thomas Jefferson 13 Apr 1743 04 Jul 1826 Albermarle County, Virginia 04 Mar 1801 04 Mar 1809 Democratic - Republican
    4 James Madison 16 Mar 1751 28 Jun 1836 Port Conway, Virginia 04 Mar 1809 04 Mar 1817 Democratic - Republican
    5 James Monroe 28 Apr 1758 04 Jul 1831 Westmoreland County, Virginia 04 Mar 1817 04 Mar 1825 Democratic - Republican
    6 John Quincy Adams 11 Jul 1767 23 Feb 1848 Braintree, Norfolk, Massachusetts 04 Mar 1825 04 Mar 1829 Democratic - Republican
    7 Andrew Jackson 15 Mar 1767 08 Jun 1845 Waxhaw, South Carolina 04 Mar 1829 04 Mar 1837 Democratic
    8 Martin Van Buren 05 Dec 1782 24 Jul 1862 Kinderhook, New York 04 Mar 1837 04 Mar 1841 Democratic
    9 William Henry Harrison 09 Feb 1773 04 Apr 1841 Berkeley, Virginia 04 Mar 1841 04 Apr 1841 Whig
    10 John Tyler 29 Mar 1790 18 Jan 1862 Charles City County, Virginia 04 Apr 1841 04 Mar 1845 Whig
    11 James Knox Polk 02 Nov 1795 15 Jun 1849 Mecklenburg County, North Carolina 04 Mar 1845 03 Mar 1849 Democratic
    12 Zachary Taylor 24 Nov 1784 09 Jul 1850 Orange County, Virginia 05 Mar 1849 09 Jul 1850 Whig
    13 Millard Fillmore 07 Jan 1800 08 Mar 1874 Cayuga County, New York 09 Jul 1850 04 Mar 1853 Whig
    14 Franklin Pierce 23 Nov 1804 08 Oct 1869 Hillsboro, New Hampshire 04 Mar 1853 04 Mar 1857 Democratic
    15 James Buchanan 23 Apr 1791 01 Jun 1868 Cove Gap, Pennsylvania 04 Mar 1857 04 Mar 1861 Democratic
    16 Abraham Lincoln 12 Feb 1809 15 Apr 1865 Hodgenville, Hardin County, Kentucky 04 Mar 1861 15 Apr 1865 Republican
    17 Andrew Johnson 29 Dec 1808 31 Jul 1875 Raleigh, North Carolina 15 Apr 1865 04 Mar 1869 Republican
    18 Ulysses Simpson Grant 27 Apr 1822 23 Jul 1885 Point Pleasant, Ohio 04 Mar 1869 04 Mar 1877 Republican
    19 Rutherford Birchard Hayes 04 Oct 1822 17 Jan 1893 Delaware, Ohio 04 Mar 1877 04 Mar 1881 Republican
    20 James Abram Garfield 19 Nov 1831 19 Sep 1881 Orange, Cuyahoga County, Ohio 04 Mar 1881 19 Sep 1881 Republican
    21 Chester Alan Arthur 05 Oct 1829 18 Nov 1886 Fairfield, Vermont 20 Sep 1881 04 Mar 1885 Republican
    22 Grover Cleveland 18 Mar 1837 24 Jun 1908 Caldwell, New Jersey 04 Mar 1885 04 Mar 1889 Democratic
    23 Benjamin Harrison 20 Aug 1833 13 Mar 1901 North Bend, Ohio 04 Mar 1889 04 Mar 1893 Republican
    24 Grover Cleveland 18 Mar 1837 24 Jun 1908 Caldwell, New Jersey 04 Mar 1893 04 Mar 1897 Democratic
    25 William McKinley 29 Jan 1843 14 Sep 1901 Niles, Ohio 04 Mar 1897 14 Sep 1901 Republican
    26 Theodore Roosevelt 27 Oct 1858 06 Jan 1919 New York City 14 Sep 1901 04 Mar 1909 Republican
    27 William Howard Taft 15 Sep 1857 08 Mar 1930 Cincinnati, Ohio 04 Mar 1909 04 Mar 1913 Republican
    28 Woodrow Wilson 28 Dec 1856 03 Feb 1924 Staunton, Virginia 04 Mar 1913 04 Mar 1921 Democratic
    29 Warren Gamaliel Harding 02 Nov 1865 02 Aug 1923 Blooming Grove, Ohio 04 Mar 1921 02 Aug 1923 Republican
    30 Calvin Coolidge 04 Jul 1872 05 Jan 1933 Plymouth, Vermont 03 Aug 1923 04 Mar 1929 Republican
    31 Herbert Clark Hoover 10 Aug 1874 20 Oct 1964 West Branch, Iowa 04 Mar 1929 04 Mar 1933 Republican
    32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 30 Jan 1882 12 Apr 1945 Hyde Park, New York 04 Mar 1933 12 Apr 1945 Democratic
    33 Harry S. Truman 08 May 1884 26 Dec 1972 Lamar, Missouri 12 Apr 1945 20 Jan 1953 Democratic
    34 Dwight David Eisenhower 14 Oct 1890 28 Mar 1969 Denison, Texas 20 Jan 1953 20 Jan 1961 Republican
    35 John Fitzgerald Kennedy 29 May 1917 22 Nov 1963 Brookline, Massachusetts 20 Jan 1961 22 Nov 1963 Democratic
    36 Lyndon Baines Johnson 27 Aug 1908 22 Jan 1973 near Stonewall, Texas 22 Nov 1963 20 Jan 1969 Democratic
    37 Richard Milhous Nixon 09 Jan 1913 22 Apr 1994 Yorba Linda, California 20 Jan 1969 09 Aug 1974 Republican
    38 Gerald Rudolph Ford 14 Jul 1913 Omaha, Nebraska 09 Aug 1974 20 Jan 1977 Republican
    39 James Earl 'Jimmy' Carter 01 Oct 1924 Plains, Georgia 20 Jan 1977 20 Jan 1981 Democratic
    40 Ronald Wilson Reagan 06 Feb 1911 05 Jun 2004 Tampico, Illinois 20 Jan 1981 20 Jan 1989 Republican
    41 George Herbert Walker Bush 12 Jun 1924 Milton, Massachusetts 20 Jan 1989 20 Jan 1993 Republican
    42 William Jefferson 'Bill' Clinton 19 Aug 1946 Hope, Arkansas 20 Jan 1993 20 Jan 2001 Democratic
    43 George Walker Bush 06 Jul 1946 New Haven, Connecticut 20 Jan 2001 Republican

    Pertaining to our lifetimes, (I'm 54) if you look back to Franklin D. Roosevelt, we have had an equal number of Democratic Presidents (6) and Republican Presidents (6).

    I still have my guns.

    I am bringing into question the generally held belief that you must support Republican presidential candidates if you want to protect our RTKBA rights.
    I'm hoping this can be discussed in a civil manner without name-calling, flaming, and any other hostility.
    I've started this thread with a list of presidents for reference.
    My belief is that the balance of the Congress & Senate, combined with the powers of the President, is the main determining factor when it comes to our Constitution and our Civil Rights. In our present form, the balance is too far to the right, with the Republicans controlling all three factors. I believe it is time for a change, and my hope is the Democrats will win back the Congress and/or Senate, and this will be a big step in fixing the many problems our country faces in these complicated times.

    And I believe this will not be a threat to our RTKBA.

    I'll still have my guns.
     
  2. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    1,700
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    Perhaps. But will you still have your dignity?

    You cannot profess to love liberty, while at the same time hope socialists will gain more power.
     
  3. swampsniper

    swampsniper Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2003
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    St. Augustine, Fla
    Socialism and liberty cannot coexist.
     
  4. Boogyman

    Boogyman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Southern Missouri
    I can't? Why not?

    I'm not worried about losing my dignity. I fought for my country. I was wounded in Vietnam, Quang Tin Province, 1972 while serving with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade. I'm a 50% disabled Veteran.
    And I'm a Democrat. A liberal Democrat.
    I love my country. I believe in the constitution. I own over 60 guns, and have no intention of giving them up.
    And I'm voting Democrat in the November mid-terms.
     
  5. boofus

    boofus Guest

    Mr and Mrs America turn them all in. Or else our sturmtruppen will surround your dwelling, ram it with a tank, set it on fire and shoot all you gun owning m0f0s that try to escape.

    Oh yes, we need another democrat in office. /sarcasm

    Give me Atilla the Hun any day. At least it is legal to shoot the barbaric horde when they invade.
     
  6. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,085
    Location:
    Idaho
    Well, just to be fair, Bush 41 presided over Ruby Ridge.
    Biker
     
  7. Boogyman

    Boogyman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Southern Missouri
    Democracy and liberty can.

    Our founding fathers were mostly liberals, including Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Franklin, Madison and Monroe. Are they "socialists" too?
     
  8. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    What a delightful non-sequitar you've discovered!

    Of course I still have all of my guns, but, hm, let's see...

    Can I own a suppressor?

    How about a buzzgun?

    Or a shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches?

    Or a newly manufactured pistol capable of accepting a rifle stock?

    Oh, that's right, I can't own any of those because of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

    Which was passed by FDR...

    who was...(dramatic pause) A DEMOCRAT

    Let's see, the rifle I most recently purchased, a Rock River AR15 carbine with a flash hider and bayonet lug, I couldn't have purchased that rifle before September of 2004 because of the ban authored by Dianne Feinstein...A DEMOCRAT, and passed by a predominantly Democrat-controlled Congress.

    Oh, and should I even bring up the fact that the cost of 20 and 30 round magazines was dramatically hyperinflated by that same law passed by, oh, wait, who? Republicans?
    Libertarians?

    NOPE!

    :) DEMOCRATS! :)

    Boogyman, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Total Pwnage.
     
  9. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    They were classical liberals, and have nothing in common with people who self-apply that term today.

    Anyone who's read any of the Founders' writings would know that their philosophy is far more in line with modern libertarianism than the sort of people who advocate forcible redistribution of unearned wealth at gunpoint.
     
  10. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    And in Texas we fought for years for a concealed carry law that was consistently vetoed by our DEMOCRAT governor Ann Richards.

    When GW Bush was elected gov one of the first things he did was sign the concealed carry law.

    Oh, and who was it signed the "assualt weapons" ban?

    Who let it die a quiet death?

    You cannot name me one Democrat in the White House that has done anything pro firearm in our lifetime.

    Your posts are getting stale Boogyman.
     
  11. Trip20

    Trip20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    505
    Location:
    WI
    Boogyman,

    If your only concern is the big picture, then you’re correct.

    You'll still have your guns.

    Of course, your guns will be devoid of high capacity mags, semi-automatic rifles, muzzle breaks, flash hiders, silencers or suppressors, pistol grips, folding stocks, hollow-point ammunition, "armor piercing" ammunition, more than one gun purchase a month,...et cetera.

    What good is a Right when it's controlled to the point of contravention? :confused:

    They count on this phenomenon for your vote – that is, when people feel good about having something, when in reality they have nothing. Apparently, this strategy works. :banghead:

    I'm not happy with certain Republican developments in the past couple years... However, with regards to the 2nd Amendment, and with all due respect - wise up.

    I still have my evil, black, high capacity, pistol gripped, folding stocked, flash suppressed rifle... for now.
     
  12. Boogyman

    Boogyman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Southern Missouri
    You can own any of the guns you just mentioned if you follow NFA rules.

    If you want a tank or a rocket launcher to go with them, join the military.

    Flash-hiders and bayonet lugs have always been regularly available aftermarket.

    I suppose you think anybody should be able to walk into a supermarket and buy hand grenades and machine guns too? Is what you are suggesting is that there be NO laws or restrictions on anything?
     
  13. Trip20

    Trip20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    505
    Location:
    WI
    I don't know why that is so damn funny.
     
  14. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Yeah, but I can't afford the nearly $20,000 for a Thompson submachinegun, a firearm that, in any market that wasn't horribly distorted by laws that amount to a de facto ban would retail for maybe $2000.

    Gen. Wesley Clark says: "I like to hunt. I have grown up with guns all my life, but people who like assault weapons should join the United States Army, we have them. Sen. John Kerry offered, I never contemplated hunting deer or anything else with an AK-47."

    Not surprisingly, the Nazi Party hewed to a similar line of thinking prior to World War Two.
    (In this case, there is a legitimate exemption from Godwinning out, to anyone who might be thinking about jumping on that particular meme.)

    At a price that was greatly distorted, and hence inflated, beyond what the market would have charged for them by idiotic legislation drafted and passed primarily by the Democrats. For a leftist who is obviously all into economic equality and whatnot, I find your support for grossly inflating the prices of firearms out of the reach of the poor to be truly disturbing.

    Now you're attempting to confuse the issue by bringing up yet more asinine non-sequitars. All I was doing is pointing out that the Democrats are primarily responsible for the vast majority of the most offensive and idiotic gun control measures.

    That you actually have to resort to a fallacious attempt at reductio ad absurdum simply goes to show that you haven't got a leg to stand on.
     
  15. engineer151515

    engineer151515 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    US Southern Gulf Coast
    I'll give Boogyman some credit on the debate.


    New Orleans confiscation of firearms from law abiding citizens, although enacted by a Democratic Party state government and enforced by police squads from Democratic Party (California) blue state, was not STOPPED in its tracks, nor INTERRUPTED by the current Republican White House / Congress.

    The Republicans did NOTHING to cease and desist that unconstitutional action.


    Therefore, although I will probably never vote for a Democrat, I give the Republicans little to no credit for protection of our right to bear arms.
     
  16. Hobie

    Hobie Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Staunton, VA
    A democrat 54 years ago isn't a democrat today. A democrat today is a socialist/just-this-side-of-communist. BIG change. A republican today is a just-this-side-of-socialist and some are.

    Don't lie to me. Some of the best liars in the world have tried and failed.
     
  17. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,085
    Location:
    Idaho
    Ah! You must have known my second wife!
    :evil:
    Biker
     
  18. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    If you still have all of your guns, it is certainly not because of Democrats.

    Let's take a look at federal gun control legislation, shall we?

    1934 National Firearms Act - proposed by Democrat, signed by Democratic President.

    1968 Gun Control Act - proposed by Democrat, signed by Democratic President

    1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act - proposed by Republican, the one gun control provision added (closing the NFA registry to civilians) is added by a Democrat controlled House

    1994 Brady Law - proposed by Democrat, signed by a Democratic President

    1994 Assault Weapons Ban - proposed by a Democrat, signed by a Democratic President

    Let's look at some of the past bills supported by recent Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry:

    Kerry co-sponsored S.1431 - the bill expanding the ban on semi-auto weapons to include guns such as the Remington 1187 he was photographed with on the campaign trail.

    Kerry voted twice to kill the CMP. If he doesn't trust you with 1903 bolt-actions and Garands, what does he trust you with?

    Kerry voted in March 2004 to extend the existing semi-auto ban.

    When Kerry mentor and top Democrat Ted Kennedy stood up in february 2004 to introduce his bill saying:

    "Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

    It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America." (Page S1634 of the Congressional Record, February 26, 2004)

    John Kerry voted YES to ban .30-30 and other centerfire rifle ammo as armor-piercing.

    Of course, all of that is from 2004 - shall we look at current gun control legislation sponsored by Democrats in Congress to see what they have planned for us in the future? Shall we look to Democrat controlled New Orleans in the wake of Katrina for an answer? Should we look to the new wave of weapons banned in California every year?

    Better yet, in the interests of brevity, why don't you just list for us all the pro-gun legislation introduced by Democrats this year?

    We have all read the same Dem strategy paper advanced by Americans For Gun Safety that basically tries to repackage the old Democratic gun control agenda as a "gun safety issue" while at the same time being less openly hostile to gun owners (I.e. "I support the Second Amendment; but you should still be registered, licensed and tracked like sex offenders when you are allowed to own guns at all"). The Dems need a REAL pro-gun strategy if they want pro-gun votes.
     
  19. EddieCoyle

    EddieCoyle Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    No. We need MORE laws. You know, for the children. [/sarcasm]

    The Democrats have some interesting proposals for new laws.

    For example, here's quote from Democrat Ted Kennedy:
    That's from the Congressional record (here's the link)

    The quote above is from Kennedy's speech proposing an amendment to the PROTECTION OF LAWFUL COMMERCE IN ARMS ACT that would ban "cop killer" bullets that were capable of penetrating "body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers" (in other words soft body armor).

    That fat idiot is on record describing the .30-30 as if it were some newly minted uber-cartidge designed soley for penetrating cops' body armor! Either he's amazingly ignorant, or he's purposely trying to over-scare people to the point of being dishonest. This amendment would've banned virtually EVERY RIFLE CARTRIDGE! You sure you want to be on the same side as this guy?

    Yeah Boogyman, you still have your guns but if the Democrats get their way, you won't have anything to shoot out of them.
     
  20. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,056
    Location:
    United Socialist States of Obama
    I agree with the troll that the Republican party has too much power right now. The Republican Party has lost its traditional ideals of limited government and fiscal conservatism, and certainly is heading us along an almost identical path the Democrats would have taken us.

    I support voting Democrat, too, in the next midterm elections, but not because I support the Democrats. I would love to see the Dems take one house of Congress though, simply to gridlock the political system, and stop the Neo-Conservative agenda.

    Our rights suffer under Republicans and Democrats. Political stalemate is the only true friend of liberty.

    If you think the Republican or Democrat parties care about the 2nd Amendment, you are living in a dreamworld. All they really care about is power. Bush I and Reagan banned about as many guns as Clinton did.

    I will vote Democrat in 2006, but it certainly isnt because I support them.
     
  21. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Engineer-

    Don't misread my criticism of the Democrats as support for the Republicans.

    The central conceit of Boogyman's thesis is that since he still owns guns, and we've had democrats in power, that therefore the democrats aren't the party of gun control.

    This is, of course, willfully ignorant of the facts.
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    18,083
    Location:
    Lafayette, Indiana-the Ned Flanders neighbor to Il
    Federal gun control has been pushed by Democrats. But what about the cities? Washington D.C.? New York City? Chicago? Cleveland? Run by Republicans?:scrutiny:
     
  23. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,287
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    There have been gun control laws signed by Republicans and Democrats. One of the reasons I voted for George W Bush was because I felt he was pro-gun and I think I made the right choice. The Assault Weapons Ban, that was signed by Bill Clinton-Democrat, was allowed to sunset under GW's watch.

    I have not always voted Republican. When I lived in Illinois I voted for a Democrat governor because I did not like the Republican choice. The Republican won and was indicted after he left office. A Democrat is now in charge and is working with Mayor Daley for more gun control laws. In Chicago they don't "still have all their guns". You cannot own an "assault weapon" or handgun in a DEMOCRAT held city.

    If you are accusing this administration of being corrupt or having too much power I think you need to explain why.

    We all have to make choices based on our beliefs. I believe in freedom from government intervention in my life. Most of the Democrats that I have had the opportunity to vote for feel that government should have an input in my life....social security, taxes, schools, guns, and police so I voted against them.

    In the next election I will be voting and I will vote for who I feel is right whether it be Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian.

    That being said, I am very careful who I vote for because of who they hang around with. Here is a photograph of four Democrat senators who had just voted against a pro-gun bill:
    [​IMG]

    Enough said.
     
  24. Richardson

    Richardson Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Messages:
    172
    Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans should be closesly associated to those who held those titles in the past. They have both let their platforms become market driven and given up on past principles. They both pose threats to our freedoms, including RKBA. The Democrats are more vocally against RKBA, but the Republicans are at best fair weather friends on the issue.

    While the Democrats push for European style Socialism, the Republicans enact "Law & Order" legislation which expands the police power by criminalizing expanding types of behavior. Without the Republican boosting of the police powers, the Democratic gun control would have no teeth.

    Richardson
     
  25. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,056
    Location:
    United Socialist States of Obama
    That would have happened even if Kerry had won. The house and senate were still under republican control, and would still have not let renewal come up.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page