I want to shoot competition pistol, what gun to buy?

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I went to the club thats pretty close to me. and watched them shoot, and I talked to some of the shooters to, I really learned a lot. It was a USPSA match I find this very interesting and I would like to try it. One of the guys was using a S&W M&P, he let me handle it, and I liked it alot, but out of my budget:( I am considering getting the sigma
but I am very worried about the trigger. I have been to my local gun shop, and I have handled the sigma and it feels really good in my hands, but i am unsure of the trigger.
what do you guys think of that gun? will I be able to shoot it accurately and rapidly with a little practice?
 
I have handled the sigma and it feels really good in my hands, but i am unsure of the trigger.
what do you guys think of that gun? will I be able to shoot it accurately and rapidly with a little practice?
There is/was a recent thread on that subject and the reports seemed to indicate that the Sigmas have gotten a lot better. Plus, they are inherantly no less accurate than most other "service-type" or "duty" or "combat" handguns. The trigger may be heavy but it won't be a problem if you use good technique.
 
Weather or not a Sigma would work for you depends on you. From what I understand the Sigma trigger is pretty heavy and there is not much that can be done about that but I have read about some things that can be done to improve them on some of the S&W forums. If you work at it you very likley can make it work but it will take more practice and effort than other guns. If you tell us want you want to spend we may be able to suggest things you might find suitable in your price range. One question I have for everyone reading this is how well would the Sigma hold up to lots of dry fire??
 
I'm not sure what your budget is but I would look for a used Glock or M&P. Jump on Gunbroker, or classicarms, etc and search for glock or M&P as well as limiting it to Pennsylvania. You can probably get away from sales tax or transfer fees if you find one used in state. The Sigma is an alright pistol, but a used glock or m&p is a much better starting point. Or look for a used CZ. There are lots of used pistols roughly in the same price range as the Sigma that are far better options.

You say some of these pistols are out of the budget. At $10/50 rounds 9mm is cheap, but not free. It doesn't take long for ammo costs to far eclipse pistol costs. You will quickly forget where that extra $100-$200 went into the pistol when you have spent $1k on ammo. If you were on the Ohio side of the boarder I could point you to a handful of places that have a good used selection. Heck, you could swing down to AIMsurplus and pick up a glock 22 for $390. But it sounds like you are in PA, where I don't know much about firearm stores.
 
will I be able to shoot it accurately and rapidly with a little practice?

No.
You will be able to shoot it accurately and rapidly with a LOT of practice.
Which applies to any gun you might buy.
Good shooting is the product of a lot of work.
 
If you want to buy new, you may want to split the difference between the Sigma and the M&P by selecting the S&W SD-9. It has a nicer trigger than the Sigma and doesn't cost as much as the M&P.
 
Buy the best trigger and sights you can afford; as Col. Cooper put it, that's what you need to shoot well, so skimp elsewhere.

And IMHO, a Sigma's trigger will not let you develop as quickly as a nicer trigger-but that's just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

Larry
 
I went to a gun shop and tried the trigger on the sigma, I hated it. it has a very long hard
pull and I can barely get it to click with my big hands and long fingers. I was really disapointed because I really liked how the gun felt, and the placement of the magazine, and slide release.
 
Check out page 28 of the current CDNN catalog there are 2 guns you might find affordable and they have some S&W 5906 stainless police trade-ins (page 37) for $299.00. These are very robust guns which would be great for IDPA on a budget or home defense.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

I started a thread asking for information about the American Tactical Beretta 92 copy ($299.99) and the Israeli BUL ($339.99) here;

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=550564

I have bought stuff from CDNN and been happy. Last week I got a CMMG stainless .22 conversion for my AR-15 for $139.99 with a 25rnd magazine shipping was $10.00 and fast.
 
I just got into IDPA myself about a year ago and did alot of research on what to buy that was going to be cheap and fun to shoot. I first went to my local gun shop and purchased a used glock 17 for $435 that came w/ 2 clips. While I was there I do remember fondeling a M&P 9mm and liking the feel but could not afford it at the time...definately one to look at if you dont like the feel of the glock. I then picked up a black hawk holster for $35, a double clip holster for $20 and an extra clip for around $22. I picked up 2 boxes of winchester white box 100rnd for $23 each and went shortly there after to my first IDPA match. Man was it fun! the Glock was flawless and i didn't do bad at all for my first time. So for around $500 plus the cost of ammo you could be good to go. I prefer the 9mm because of less muzzle flip which means you can squeeze off your second shot much faster & more accurately then you could w/ a .40 and it is cheaper to shoot and from what i have read safer to reload. Speed is definately important in IDPA and is something you want to consider. Since my first match and doing some shooting at the range I have purchased a Glock 34 :D but have not taken it to a match yet. I would say the 34 is more accurate then the 17 but i feel I can have the 17 on target faster then the 34....probably need to practice w/ the 34 more. Also from a reloading standpoint I would say the 17 in my case will eat just about any ammo while I have had some issues w/ Glock 34....keep in mind that I am a beginner reloader also so i made some mistakes while reloading but the 17 still ate everything. Also keep in mind that while in competition IDPA in perticular you can only have 10 rounds in the clip so high capacity doesn't matter. Another thing about having the 17 and 34 thats nice is that the clips are interchangable and I can use the same holster for both guns. After buying the 34 I am up to 5 clips which is a really expensive way to get 2 more clips but thats ok! :)
 
From what I hear, .38 Super is very popular among competition shooters these days and, IMO, is a very intriguing cartridge. That's what I'd probably get.
 
From what I hear, .38 Super is very popular among competition shooters these days and, IMO, is a very intriguing cartridge. That's what I'd probably get.

He's trying to save money. .38 Super is RIGHT out. Factory ammo is relatively hard to find and expensive. Reloading is as cheap as 9mm, EXCEPT that the brass itself is going to have to be purchased as he's never going to find enough range pick-up .38 Super brass to fill a coke can, let alone keep him going in competition. (And you ALWAYS lose a few cases at every practice session...and probably ALL of them at a real match.)

Plus, none of the guns on the moderate to inexpensive end of the price range come in .38 Super. He'd pretty much have to get a high-end 1911, and that's going to at least triple his gun budget.

.38 Super is really only very popular among USPSA/IPSC shooters (or similar) in the classes which are allowed to use compensators. They run .38 Super at high pressure/velocity to make the compensator work better and mitigate muzzle rise. All of that is both a niche end of the competitive spectrum AND a great way to spend a lot of cash.

(Of course, there are certain old-school defensive shooting savants who still favor the .38 Super but that's outside of our discussion here ... and still expensive.)
 
even the open gun guys are moving away from .38 super in favor of 9major. This upsets me to no end, as I no longer feel i can just pick up range brass willy nilly.
 
Awww, don't let it bother you! Just have to add a dab of glue to keep the primers from falling out ...:what:




Just kidding. Yeah, that is a worry. Fortunately our club doesn't do USPSA and I've not seen a single tortured "9 Major" case yet.
 
obsessedwithrc, I have shot USPSA Limited 10 with two Glock 22s and currently working the trigger on a new M&P45 to shoot USPSA Limited 10 and IDPA also.

There were some shooting Beretta 92's at matches when I started match shooting with 1911/Sig 226 some 15 years ago, but most switched over to Glock platforms, like me.

I would highly recommend the Glock platform as we have done many comparison pistol shoots (total up to 35 different make/models) and Glock 17/22 typically come out on top for best stage times/accuracy of double taps over other factory stock pistols. I also found new shooters tend to shoot more consistent and get tighter shot groups with Glocks than others brands/models.

One primary reason why Glocks are popular in match shooting is that it has very short trigger reset (amount of trigger travel back to reset the striker) which allows you faster double taps. As you shoot matches, you will find that best scores often come with faster times. Accuracy can be obtained with most high-end semi-autos on the market, but not all come with short trigger rest from the factory. You can get shorter trigger reset on M&P pistols by doing a trigger job or replacing the sear. Most match shooters will significantly improve their accuracy within a few months of match shooting. However, their stage time decreasing takes more time and proper deliberate practice.

If you start out with G22 over G17, you can drop in a $100 Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel and be able to shoot the cheaper 9mm rounds for practice or actual matches. You will need several magazines to start (like 5) and factory Glock magazines are cheap ($20 from CDNN), durable (dropping them on the ground for mag changes won't hurt them) and easy to maintain. There's a ton of factory/aftermarket support for parts and accessories (trigger kits, holsters, mag holder, springs, etc.) and they are priced lowest of all pistol models due to higher volume customer base.

Another benefit is that I don't hardly have to clean my Glocks to be match ready. With my match 1911 with tight fitting match components and Sig 226, I had to keep them absolutely clean and lubed to be trouble free on match day (about 30 minutes work). With my Glock 22, all I really need to do was field-strip to clean the barrel and lube the four slide rail points and barrel contact point. That's it, and I am ready for the match. I have shot up to 2000-4000+ rounds during practice and two matches with just the barrel cleaning/slide rail lubing and had no problems.

M&P models will require trigger job or sear replacement to match the factory Glock triggers for comparable double tap speed and groups. M&P's have better ergonomics (shorter/better reach to mag release and slide release) as I have to tilt the Glocks in my hand to reach the mag release. M&P's are also a great platform and I see more and more of them at matches. You can get 40-9 conversion barrel also for M&P40 to shoot 9mm.

If purchase cost is an issue, I would even recommend you buy a used Generation 3 Glock 22 (finger grooves in front of the grip) as they are very durable and reliable. I have shot over 300,000+ rounds through my stock G22s and they keep ticking away.
 
You had asked earlier if after a "little" practice, you'd do well...

I think it will take more than a little practice. You can very easily start by learning the fundamentals, especially SAFETY. I can't stress enough how you are accepted by other shooters when you don't exhibit good safe shooting principles. Which way is the muzzle pointed, where's your finger in relation to the trigger guard, where is the magazine...still in the gun? All the years I shot practical pistol, bullseye, high power, silhouette or whatever, safety is first. Learn the rules. Each range will have specific rules but the basics are the same everywhere. As far as sport specific rules, several have posted links to sites with the rules. They are published for a reason.

Start going to shoots like you did today. Watch, listen and learn. Get involved with the club. You'd be amazed how much you learn when you aren't shooting but working with other club members. If there is a gun shop in your area with an indoor (or even an outdoor) range, they usually rent guns. Try what's there. If you find something you like, learm more about it and save your $$. You'll be better off with something you like than a gun from an impulse buy.

I can't remember how many time I loaned gear out to new shooters. I usually brought a backup gun to matches and you might find others who do the same. Offer to compensate them for their ammo. I don't think I ever took any $$ but it was nice when they offered.

Accessories are expensive as well. you already know ammo isn't on trees. If you plan on reloading some day, don't buy cheap ammo and expect to reload berdan primed or aluminum or steel case ammo. Those casings are disposable. Gun leather (or today's equivalent) is often purpose specific. IDPA vs USPSA or whatever may not be the same. Pick a disclipline and stay with it a while. After you get comfortable in one, try another. Protection is important as well. Good safety glasses and hearing protection are a must.

Remember, when you get ready for the next match, there is only one person you need to beat...yourself. That's how you improve.

Last...have fun. You'll find some of the nicest, most fun-loving people in the shooting sports!

Bruce
 
obsessedwithrc,

I hope you will continue to watch this thread and let us know what you decide to get. We are hoping you will stay with your intention of entering the combat pistol shooting discipline and can find a gun you can afford and shoot well. The season is over in most places (some clubs shoot all year long) so the off season is a good time to find good deals. Anyway many of us here would really like to know what you decide and help you in your venture.
 
Yes I will definatley keep with this thread, I have been sick lately so I haven't been to any gun stores to look for more guns, I did go to a gun show on sunday and I looked at a Ruger
SR9. I liked it for the most part but the grip was pretty thin. Thanks to everyone that has helped me so far:)
 
I think the SR9 is a gun you will see more in competative shooting. From what I understand the original guns had a problem and were recalled. I have heard the trigger is better on the new guns but this is strictly hear-say. The trigger has a reputation for being a little heavy but also for grtting better with use. As for the grip thickness you can get a Hogue grip sleve which will slip on the current grip and is only about $10. Here is a link to an article on the SR9;

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/combat-handguns/ruger-sr9-9mm-2/

I might have to consider one of these myself
 
Call your local police department's in the area and ask them who they deal with for their weapons? Chances are it is a local (couple hour drive tops) dealer.

Call the dealer and ask if they sell the used police issue weapons. Some do, some just send them back to be refurbished by the manufacturer. You can pick up a really good but inexpensive weapon.

Even though they will have seen lots of lead, they will also have seen routine maintenance with lots of armorers looking at them. You can probably pick a used LE Glock for $300. Sometimes, they will even throw in a couple extra mags.

This is also the prime time to look at leather gear. If a department gets rid of say Glock for Sig, they will need all new holsters.

I would also say 9mm is your best option but unfortunately the LE community has an infatuation with .40 cal so be forewarned.
 
Most police guns are carried a lot shot very little. If you break them down you will notice that the internals show very little wear. In todays LEO market most departments except for very small rural ones are buying guns directly from the manufacturer not through a local store. In todays market the manufacturer buys them back and then resells them to people like CDNN who are large wholesalers. In recent years they have blown out LEO S&Ws, Sigs, Glocks etc...

There are still some areas that deal with a local distribution point but with a competitive LEO marketplace govts are looking to squeeze out the middle man and end up buying directly from the manufacturer.

LEO leather 99% of the time requires retention that is not needed or desired when competition shooting. You rarely see someone shooting competition with LEO leather.

I love LEO trade ins because they are rarely shot and can be a great value. I do agree that these days LEO guns means 40 S&W which is a shame IMHO.
 
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