I was bump firing today, and it got me thinking...

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doctorhumbert

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I was pump firing today, and it got me thinking...

Well, I was bump firing with my AR15 and HK91 (only double taps with HK) today, and it got me thinking..... This SUCKS!!!

It was somewhat fun, but 'Accuracy' was crap. I was able to make sucessful 5rd burst from hips, and 2-3 round burst from the shoulder.

So I though, Why couldn't anyone make a device that would produce an effective 'rock&roll' trigger time?

I know that any device that fires more than a single shot from a trigger pull would be considered a machinegun. So, how about a battery or hydrolic powered mechanical device with a arm that pulls a trigger for you rapidly when activated.

I was thinking of something of in small size that actually fits insde or replaces the A2 grip, with mechanical arm coming out from left side (or right if you are left handed). There would be a small motor and a battery inside the grip, and it would rapidly yank the trigger, say in 400-500rpm, when device is turned on via 'switch' that is pressed with the middle finger (trigger finger would not touch the trigger as it is moving on it's own).

It would be rather simple, and surely if someone can make a vibrating *****, they can make this.

Would this be legal though? as you are not pulling the trigger rapidly, but rather another 'device' is pulling it for you from a 'single trigger pull' on the device.

If only this was a ATF legal, I'd make tons of money making this.
 
It would be rather simple, and surely if someone can make a vibrating *****, they can make this.
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO

Will this be the basis of your design? Finally, a firearm accessory the wife won't complain about you buying.

THey do make manual trigger cranks, i'd assume that if it was legal to do it electronically, it would be done already.
 
Would this be legal though? as you are not pulling the trigger rapidly, but rather another 'device' is pulling it for you from a 'single trigger pull' on the device.
Click to expand...

Then the button on the device becomes the "trigger", and you are getting multiple shots with one pull of the "trigger"; at least according to the ATF, you are. :uhoh:
 
I have different thoughts. I play paintball. The rules are, semi- only. No other rules besides velocity. So you can guess what happened...

We invented electronic markers with trigger pulls in the ounces range. Using double triggers and multiple fingers to 'walk the trigger', almost anybody can do 600rpm (10bps in PB-speak). Of course markers do not recoil much...

This has caused lots of problems of definition because some triggers bounce, some have 'switch bounce' some (e-cockers and spyders) can be basically bump-fired with their recoil only on a very small and fast scale. Reactive triggers can basically runaway, and there is no clear way to define when it's not semi anymore. So you are at the mercy of the refs, and it's a nightmare, besides that we have markers that fire if you smack the back of the tank...

I think we should just go full-auto (which would be safer and more controllable IMO) but change is resisted, especialy by insurance compnies..


Anyway I want to know why firearms have not tried any of these loopholes (reactive triggers, very light multiple triggers, bouncing or rakeable triggers).

Of course safety and relibility are important to most people but on a fun-sport-tinkering basis I wonder why we do not have double triggered e-10/22s. Or reactive triggered ARs.
 
Along the lines of what ^ he said, i'm eventually going to get around to writing a letter to the ATF about creating a responce trigger system for an AR, ala Tippman's 98/A5.
 
It's done from the hip.

It's when you place your finger in the trigger guard, and apply pressure to the forarm toward the target. So the recoil of the rifle provides a runaway effect.

It's really worthless.
 
How about some weak pneumatic cylinder on the trigger, so that the shot gives a little 'trigger slap' enough to re-set the trigger into the sear?

Then even though you are only really keeping the trigger held with constant pressure, your finger is vibrating and the gun is effectively full auto...

Bets on how long the ATF would take to shoot this down?


Nick
 
That's how a tippmann response trigger works turned up, and how an RT automag works with the pressure cranked up. Neither is allowed if it 'runs away' which is at the discretion of the judges. Who knows what the ATF would say.
 
I'll give you 2 guesses what the ATF will say, and the first one dosn't count!
(Seriously though, if this were legal, wouldn't we alread have 'em?)

Nick
 
Edward, that's really neat for double shots, great for "controlled" rapid fire while remaining legal, but how long can something like that really be called legal?? I mean, that's a fairly dangerous thing... however, if it works on the Garand, it's worth it. Who wouldn't be amused having to keep popping clips full of 30-06 in? I can hear it at the range now......
*BLAM BLAM**BLAM BLAM**BLAM BLAM**BLAM BLAM**PING* All within two seconds... oh the joy that would bring....
 
If you replaced the trigger with an electronic one that pushed on the original mechanical trigger more than once per new-trigger pull, that's a machine gun. I have though of, on the other hand, using a magnoswitch like the new timmies have to make an extremely light second trigger... but I'm not that much of a machinist and will just stick to what I KNOW is legal for now.

-Colin
 
gee, i kinda doubt anyone will make an Etronx semi auto rifle then...
http://www.remington.com/NR/exeres/...950D2EE5A5}&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie_test=1

ETRONX RIFLE FEATURES

•
Electronic fire control has no moving parts other than the trigger

•
Internal electrical circuit sends a charge through the system to an electrically responsive primer

•
Unbelievable .0000027 locktime

•
This virtually eliminates the effects of barrel movement

•
An EtronX bullet leaves the barrel of the firearm before a mechanical firing pin hits the primer in a conventional rifle

•
36% less travel than standard triggers

•
Powered by a single 9-volt battery

•
LED readout on top of the grip indicates complete system status

•
Key switch in the bottom of the pistol grip must be turned on for the rifle to fire
 
If you replaced the trigger with an electronic one that pushed on the original mechanical trigger more than once per new-trigger pull, that's a machine gun.
Click to expand...

I think there are ways to get around that. For example, you could make a somewhat more complecated device which would manually jerks your finger instead of trigger, so that in a sense your finger actual is doing the pulling.

How about a mechanical brace that attatches to the front of your finger, which would rapidly push your trigger finger when activated with your middle one. Though your firing finger is out of control, it really isn't as it is activated/deactivated with your middle finger.

Crazy idea, but it's very much possible (just more complicated technology borrowed from a vibrating *****).

Whatever ATF decide on it, is an another matter though. Anyone care to submit an idea to them? There could be huge $$$ if thing works, and is legal.
 
Edward, that's really neat for double shots, great for "controlled" rapid fire while remaining legal, but how long can something like that really be called legal??
Click to expand...

I hear ya. Anything good has or will be declared illegal for sure. They just haven't thought of it yet. But as of this moment, it is legal. I printed me out my 'permission slip' from the other thread for now, and will certainly destroy my devices if they're ever declared illegal.;)

It would be awesome on a M1 Garand! If it would work. I dunno if the Garand trigger setup is the same or different. I got bored with my double tap and took it out, it eats up ammo reeal fast. Tested all my mags real good though!
 
I really wonder what the ATF would say to a semi-auto Etronix?
Click to expand...

Ah and thus a problem... anyone with any electronics background and knows which end of a soldering pencil gets hot can take a 555 timer (or similar astable oscillator) and have an illegal full-auto weapon - No machine shop required! All parts can be had at radio shack for ten bucks.

However I wouldn't think i'd matter, because it would still be illegal.

Nick

(MODS: I am not advocating doing anything illegal, merely pointing out the possibility for abuse. Nor have I, or will I, provide schematics; just in case anyone sees this as a potential liability for THR.)
 
Nick1911- Ah, but anyone can also drop in a backplate onto any Glock and have a full-auto conversion with no machineshop required! And for that matter, no permanant mods to the Glock required.

Or one can use a $0.39 nail file to file down the sear on a 1911, and also have an illegal full-auto. You don't even need the Radio Shack trip.

(I do hear your point on the electronics, however it's equally easy to convert a mechanical firearm to full auto as an electronic. All you have to do is be even a TINY bit skilled in either art.)
 
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