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I was detained at school today (Aug 29 2007)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by AJAX22, Sep 5, 2007.

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  1. crebralfix

    crebralfix member

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    How EXACTLY does what you read and post on a forum show probable cause that you're committing a crime at a later time?

    If you wrote something that stated you were doing something now, that's an admission at that time. Were the two events sequential?
     
  2. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    Let me summarize. Somebody called in a false alarm and nothing much happened. Is that right?

    Sounds like a practical joke, nothing to get worked up over.

    John
     
  3. musher

    musher Member

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    John, If your summary was a book report, you'd fail.

    Somebody called in a false alarm and a person was detained and his bag searched w/o consent (and possibly w/o a warrant). Sounds like a lot more than 'nothing much'. The fact that whole secure in your persons, houses, papers, and effects thing got put into the constitution seems to indicate it's a non-trivial matter.
     
  4. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Maybe for you. But recalling my college days (back in the '90s), an event like this would have 1) potentially tainted my professors' image of me and cost grade points and recommendations and 2) likely resulted in further discussions with faculty over whether I should remain in class. I went to a "conservative" (not really, but the media and college guides reported it as such, despite the university's best efforts to carry out as much liberal "reform" as possible) and there would have been adverse consequences to an event like this.

    Practical jokes involving police are usually kicked off by false reports, correct? Filing a false report or complaint is usually a criminal matter, correct?
     
  5. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    * Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and other rights of the accused.

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.



    You HAVE to sue. Find a pro-bono lawyer, you HAVE to challenge this. Any sane gun-rights group should support you through it, or lead it. Not only would sueing get you $$, it would prevent this **** from becoming common happening! If you don't challenge it who the **** will?
     
  6. saltydog452

    saltydog452 Member

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    This isn't going to make a lot of friends, but, with all the litagation going on, the Campus Police would have been neglectful if they had NOT thoroughly followed through with the complaint.

    Its a different world these days.

    Sanity and reason may still prevail, but it's a toss-up in front of a jury and a well orchestrated after the fact media circus.

    salty.
     
  7. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    You know, if someone can't handle a picture of a gun, tough nuts. I browse THR at school all the time. I try not to be obnoxious about me viewing habits, but still, I think it's ridiculous that looking at guns on the internet can be construed as planning to commit a crime. I bet if you were looking at marijuana buds for sale, nobody would have reported a thing... :rolleyes:
     
  8. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Next step:
    Kali "school" police block your on-campus access to web sites they disapprove
     
  9. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Lucky, the key word there is "prosecution." There was no prosecution, just a detention and a search (apparently) supported by a warrant.
     
  10. romma

    romma Member

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    Particular sects of society love nothing more than trying to throw enthusiast like us into the gun closet...

    I suppose if they don't see those horrific images, they don't think they exist.
     
  11. poor_richard

    poor_richard Member

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    I have a question that I would appreciate any LEO or lawyers chiming in on.

    I’ve heard of telephone warrants, but who’s to say they didn’t lie about the telephone warrant. If they had told me that someone had reported me advocating illegal behavior on an online forum, I could have believed it. But when they said that such a report constituted PC when they didn’t even check to verify such a claim (OP stated that he did no such thing), then I would have probably pegged them as liars and not believed the “phone warrant” line. The OP even offered to show them the posts that initially spurred this incident.

    My question is: do they have to show me the warrant?

    Also, doesn’t PC for a search pertain to a crime in progress or about to be committed? I thought they didn’t need a warrant with PC and could just conduct a search.

    Obviously he can’t stop them from searching his bag (with or without the warrant), but it seems like they should at least be able to show him a warrant.

    Another thing. I understand them being vigilant after the VT shooting and all, but searching the OP and his bag without first verifying the complaint by checking out the website sounds more like intimidation/harassment than being vigilant. If someone (the person who reported the suspicious activity) was looking close enough to see what he was writing, then they should have easily been able to point the officers to the calguns forum to verify the complaint. It also brings the question of how someone could know he was putting such statements on his computer without hovering over his shoulder (would have been fairly obvious unless they were sitting right next to him, and then he would have probably noticed them starring). I know that my local library has the ability to (and does) monitor what people are doing on the computers in the library. Is this possible in this situation?

    This whole thing just doesn’t pass the sniff test to me, but I’d like to hear from someone in LE or a lawyer.

    At the very least, someone provided a false report (believing the OP). That should be looked into since he did not post messages on: "how to bypass laws and illegally obtain firearms and hide them", and "making some kind of threat against the student body".
     
  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Freedom of speech? What freedom of speech? Terrible things could happen if we allow commoners freedom of speech.
     
  13. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    Buzz what about the defamation of character though, and the mental anguish? How can he sue if the tipster is anonymous? He has statements from the police which are clearly false accusations against him. The fact that he wasn't charged is proof that he was victimized by the nosy woman.

    If he can't sue then it's BS, 'sorry you can't have justice, you weren't breaking the law'.
     
  14. bigun15

    bigun15 Member

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    Already done at my high school.
     
  15. Hazel

    Hazel Member

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    Given what it seems the accuser was saying, I do actually agree with that. The problem is that some idiot automatically assumed that just because someone has an interest in guns it makes them a psychopath; thereby, said idiot blew the whole thing out of proportion and ended up telling a complete lie to the cops, taking up a good amount of their time and making the accused person miss class.

    And Geez, if they had found an empty casing, I know that it would cause trouble, but why in the world should it? What are you going to do, throw it at someone? That wouldn't even bruise.
     
  16. Blackbeard

    Blackbeard Member

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    I'd call the police and tell them you have reason to believe that all of your professors are carrying marijuana.
     
  17. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Minors have about as many rights as a block of cheese, especially on school grounds.

    That being said, many colleges block access to file sharing servers. When I was a freshman in college, Napster was all the rage on campus. IT blocked the ports or whatever to prohibit access since mp3 downloads were sucking up too much bandwidth. It's hard to make a strong case for the educational value of Napster and, more importantly, it was a private university. They could restrict anything they wanted.
     
  18. jparham

    jparham Member

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    Really? They're that heavy? Geez, I guess they do overwork you in college.
    On a more serious note, I don't think there was really any harm done, but hearsay (I think that's the right word) shouldn't warrant (no pun intended) six cops interrupting your school.
     
  19. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Buzz what about the defamation of character though, and the mental anguish?"

    What defamation of character? What mental anguish?

    All this gnashing of teeth has taken a lot more time and energy than the entire incident.

    No, I wouldn't have been happy to have it happen to me, but life's too short and there's too much that needs doing (in my life anyway) for me to dwell on it for more than about three or four minutes.

    Maybe I see too many people everyday with real problems - traumatic brain injuries, amputations, degenerative diseases, psychoses, spinal cord injuries, etc. - to get worked up over minor inconveniences.

    John
     
  20. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Member

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    I kinda know the feeling. I went to an inner city public school, talked about hunting with on of my friends, guns are involved in hunting. Next day cop was there, searched my pack, and the school called my parents, and for the next month I had to check in and leave my backpack in the school office until it was time to leave school.
     
  21. CWL

    CWL Member

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    I think both you and the police handled everything correctly and (by the LEOs) legally. I'm sure that there was a telephonic warrant issued to search your backpack. If there wasn't and they did find a gun or other contraband in your backpack they wouldn't be able to charge you because of illegal search and seizure. That would open them up to lawsuits as well. There is nothing in your description that you can sue about and win.

    Unfortunately, you have just found out what happens nowadays because of Vir. Tech.
     
  22. brentn

    brentn Member

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    I think everyone here can appreciate that it didn't get real bad and the officers were understanding to the situation. They had an open mind to the report and didn't go in there and just bust your ass like i've heard about so many other times.

    I'm glad that you didn't want to give them consent to search, its really all about the principal of your rights. If I were in your shoes, I would have done the same thing.

    Point being, I think you should care who called you in, I would find out and charge them with harassment, because thats exactly what it was. She gave officials false information to have you detained, she told them that you were talking about breaking the law. That was a very poor assumption on her part when she doesn't have all the facts, an assumption that should cost her.

    Nice post though
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2007
  23. obxned

    obxned Member

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    Just another reason to take courses on-line!!!!
     
  24. Nolo

    Nolo Member

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    My High School already does this.
    Guess what one of them is?
    Google Images. :barf:
    Ha!
    "I'm very sorry, but color pictures weren't around when the Constitution was written, so you can't look at them..."
    I just thank God they haven't blocked Wikipedia yet.
    Which is funny, because Wikipedia has several articles on sex and pornography that I'm sure my school wouldn't approve of.
    Technically, my school's definition of a "weapon" is any object that can cause harm to another human being.
    Which is basically anything hard and heavy.
    Better start padding those walls...
    For your safety, ja?
     
  25. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    For any of you who are beefing this guy for being P.O.'d about being snatched by the cops, ask yourself this.
    What did the cops do to verify the credibility of the accusation?
    What did the cops do to weigh the seriousness of the accusation?
    Why did there have to be multiple cops surrounding the guy?
    Why did they have to search his backpack when he was being completely calm and cooperative otherwise?

    I think he has ever right to be very much annoyed by this incident. At a minimum, the cops should be subjected to the same degree of scrutiny as this law-abiding young man was subjected to.

    This was not even a "man with a gun" call. It was a "man looking at electronic pictures of guns" call. Am I gonna get rousted now everytime I browse a copy of Guns & Ammo at the grocery store? Somebody needs to put their foot down!

    Question the police at all times. Otherwise, rest assured that there will be no retreat on police ideas that an individual's rights take second status to the cops' desire to do everything in whatever way the cop feels like doing it.

    I carried a badge for 10 years. I assure you, most cops need a LOT of reminders on the correct manner to do things.

    For instance http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=299222&highlight=Norfolk
     
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