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I went red. Hornady LNL

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Suedenflames68, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. donut1953

    donut1953 Member

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    FYI
    Product Discontinued by Manufacturer

    Hornady LNL Control Panel Deluxe has been discontinued by Hornady and is no longer available. Our product experts have helped us select these available replacements below.You can also explore other items in the Reloading Equipment yourself to try and find the perfect replacement for you!

    It does appear the Basic Control Panel is still available on Amazon. Not sure if that has been discontinued.
     
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  2. AR-Bossman

    AR-Bossman Member

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    b
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  3. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Yes if you have used the Lee powder thru die to flair same idea.
    I am having senior momment and can't remember the companies name but they make PTX for Hornady with the Lyman M die type design.
    I think other posters have mentioned that the prefer the RCBS one (used in the Hornady) over the Hornady.
    Maybe someone will chime in with the companies name.

    I don't have a case feeder but I do have a bullet feeder. I just feed cases with my left hand and pull the lever with my right. Easier in my mind to feed cases than place bullets.
    A case feeder would be nice but since I have one hand for each task feeding cases by hand does not slow me down anywhere as much as placing bullets by hand.
    I used the Hornady bullet feeder with tubes to start then bough the Hornady electric feeder. Both work fine for me but it seems most people prefer the Mr Bullet feeder as it is a better design. (but more $)
    If you buy the Hornady bullet feeder die I think they used to come with a PTX but I may not remember it correctly.

    I think the Basic Hornady panel does not come with the LOckout die, I believe you need the Deluxe (or what the more expensive one is)


    That's the thing about the lockout die, if it never locks you may wonder why you spent money on it, first time it does you know, insurance...

    For my 9mm match load with 4.5 gr of WSF in 9mm the die will lock somewhere around <4.2 and >4.7 (so about .2 to .3 off it catches, how much depends on how dense the powder is but no charges and doubles for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  4. AR-Bossman

    AR-Bossman Member

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    a
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  5. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    Thought I should add using flat seating stem so not seating off ogive. Anything over 1.135 puts the bullets into the lands. I'd be perfectly happy with .005" variance. Maybe. 010" as a worst case. Just made up a bunch of test loads with same bullets and dies and headstamp brass on my lee single stage press and it held to +/-.001" at 1.124-1.126" . That's the oal I thought I had it at when I set up on lnl but guess I was off as running single piece through it was super consistent at 1.120" .

    Seems weird its shorter when running single piece through the lnl. If anything i was expecting it would shorter with the shell plate fully loaded from seesawing up from the force of sizing on the other side of the shellplate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  6. Harriw

    Harriw Member

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    Just my 2 cents... are you lubing your cases? You don't HAVE to with carbide dies on pistol cases, but I found significant improvement in AOL variation when I started spraying them down with one-shot first.

    I did all the research on shimming the sub plate too when I first got my LNL. But lubing those cases was the answer for me.

    That said, I still do see a longer OAL when running in progressive mode vs. Single stage mode. I wanna say 0.010" difference? Having a case in the resizing station seems to be the largest factor, followed by the crimp station (I set and crimp separately). I agree it seems counter-intuitive if it's caused by the sub-plate pivoting. All I can figure is that the additional resistance from populating all those stations actually makes the peak height of the entire subplate slightly lower?

    I just keep all stations populated with cases while setting seating depth. Or adjust accordingly if you want to load in single-stage mode. Hornady makes a micrometer adjuster for their seater dies that makes it very easy to vary depth quickly for that sort of thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  7. BC17A

    BC17A Member

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    Hub shim mod will not correct your oal issue, doesn't effect the press in that way.

    When I first read about the LnL shim mod I called Hornady because I was having an issue with some shell-plates jumping and spilling powder. The guy I spoke with told me that they corrected some of the clearance issues that were causing plate jump and also primer seating problems and why owners were shimming the hub. He had me seat the detent balls deeper into the problematic plates which did the trick, no more jumping. Since I figured it couldn't hurt, and I have just about every size shim anyone could ever need (aircraft A&P) I decided to shim my press anyway. Took it apart, measured hub to lower plate gaps, dropped in either a .0015" or .002" shim(can't recall), put it back together and it was locked up tight, wouldn't turn. I had no reason to question Hornady's response after that and removed the shim.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  8. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    I have the case feeder and it does help eliminate one extra hand operation, but you will find it’s not perfect you will occasionally have to correct an upside down case, a missed case, a .... But overall it does help.

    I bought the Hornady’s version about 9 years ago and back then it wasn’t an “M” style. Double Alpha has a version that others have used successfully. I’m still running what I have as it still works, and I can blame the poor groups and my mikes on not seating bullets straight with this setup.

    What I’ve found is having cases in all the stations, primarily the sizing, PTX, seating, and crimping gives a more consistent seat depth (COL), and having a consistent pull on that handle helps. Trying to setup COL with just a case/bullet in the seating die does not work for me. Even when I finish a session, I’ll run cases into the sizer die to keep the seating depth consistent, but pull them before priming. These then are used to start the next reloading session since they take very little force to size again. Good luck!
     
  9. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    One shot lube seems to have made a big difference! I may have been pulling handle a little different last night too I guess. So much else going on to pay attention to now. Made sure to do it with intent each time. Lubed up a handful of cases (ended up exactly 50) and rolled em around in a paper towel. I let the last 4 run out and measured those separately. Variation on last 4 running em out was 1.124 - 1.1285.
    Fully loaded shell plate resulted in 1.125 - 1.130 Most were 1.128 or 1.129

    Seems I'm good to go. Not a big deal to spray lube cases and can seems like it will last for a long time with just a quick spritz.

    Think I'll still play with the shims when they get here to see what it does. Would like to tighten the primers up a little. Spinning a few of the cases in my calipers they seemed to be on the primers instead of the case head. Couldn't feel em protruding and dont wobble on the bench or anything. Could just be lack of leverage sitting low in my office chair not getting em consistent. But if I can tighten up some slop in it then that wouldn't be a bad thing.

    Off to build a raised mount for the press! :)

    James
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  10. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Good luck with your LNL. I loaded on one for 10 years and replace it a month ago to standardize on Dillon equipment. The primer seating gave me the most problems over time, Russian primers required 50 lbs of force on the Hornady and I can seat the same ones on my Dillon with one finger.
     
  11. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    When I built my bench, operating the press while sitting never occurred to me. Having tried other friends setup, I can not operate a press while sitting.:)

    Having it custom built at 43” makes standing there for hours easy. Sometimes I forget to go to bed!:D
     
  12. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    Not super pretty but working better. About 51" at the top of my riser I made. Keeps me from having to bend down working the handle. Could be maybe a couple inches shorter but not much. Takes a lot of pressure to seat these primers , and I'm a big dude. Using cci spp. Ran 20 through and had one that seemed like primer may be a little up. Stuck a little washer under the primer pin on the press frame and it seats em deeper. The ones that may be up are so slight it's hard to tell and get a good measurement on it. With the washer they are .003 or .004 under flush.

    20200708_150719.jpg
     
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  13. Harriw

    Harriw Member

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    Bingo! I put a few handfuls of cases in a plastic bag, spray in the bag, and roll them around. Repeat the process a 2nd time for good measure, and you're good to go.

    I built one too, as the stock height was wreaking havoc with my back. I'll measure the height from the floor when I get home. I sized it so the bottom of the lever throw is at a comfortable height for operating while standing, and am quite pleased with it at that height.
     
  14. Harriw

    Harriw Member

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    Oh! Something else to watch out for... on mine, the powder measure liked to rotate over time, and would eventually "unlock" the LNL bushing, if that makes sense. Suddenly, the case no longer actuated the powder measure, instead just pushing the whole powder measure up in the air (producing a very light powder charge). To solve that, I used a piece of 10 ga. Copper wire and wrapped it around the powder measure, and around the bullet seater die preventing movement in that direction. Works like a charm. Doesnt need to be tight, just enough to prevent the bushing from unlocking. I'll post a pic tonight.
     
  15. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    Contact Hornady and they will send you shims to stop powder measure from turning. Or as said you can make your own. I tried the thicker o-ring like some others have but didn’t find it worked as well as the shim did.
     
  16. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    I just played around with it some more and was back to getting some bigger OAL variation,probably just didnt get cases lubed enough I guess. Had a bunch of brass already resized and primed from loading on my single stage that I didnt use up yet.... so I took out resize die and primers and ran em through the lnl and it was very enjoyable. No massive amount of force needed to size or prime. Was very easy to find a rythm and loaded up about 200 rounds in half an hour going slow and checking powder charges a lot. Oal was as good as single stage loading variation. I think I understand why some people resize and prime separate with a progressive. Cant imagine any tuning/set up reducing the amount of force necessary for those operations , just leverage at work. Resizing and priming sitting in my chair on my lee single stage with a handle 5" shorter is less difficult. I guess the sizing progressesly isn't really any problem, other than the possible variances in OAL, but that priming! it's got me feeling like a weakling.

    All you guys find primer seating takes a lot of pressure? Cci primers and pmc brass , no military crimp stuff or anything .

    James
     
  17. lordpaxman

    lordpaxman Member

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    When I used the original handle, it seemed to be. I switched to the ergo inline fabrication roller handle and don’t notice it. It’s difficult to describe the amount of force required, but I would say I use about the same amount of force to size/deprime as to prime. Now, .45 lpp is a bit different for me and requires about 2x that force.
     
  18. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    The only one I have seen that is like the M-die profile is 9mm.
    If you look at the pictures of them on the net you will see that most of them are a flare profile. Not an M-die profile.

    Are you using round nose bullets with a flat seating profile stem. If you are that's why your OAL's are all over the place.
    Something else to. If you are using mixed brass, some like PPU's are really stiff to resize and some like Fed or Win once fired resize like butter. So sorting your brass by headstamp will make a big difference in OAL variances.

    I sort my brass per head stamp and if my press starts seating bullets with more than .005" as a max OAL, I start looking for the problem. It hardly ever goes over .005".
    A lot of the time it hangs around .002-.003" which I'm very happy with.
    If your using mixed brass where some is once fired and some have had been shot many times, your OAL will vary around .005" or more because the brass that has been shot several time has hardened up and is harder to resize.
    Make sure the seating stem in the seating die has a profile that matches the bullet your shooting. Round nose or flat nose. Your variance sounds to me like you may be using the wrong seating stem for the bullet your seating.
    Also,
    If you look at the side of the case where the base of the bullet is seated to you should be able to see a shadow the whole way around the case and see where the base of the bullet stopped.
    If the shadow disappears part ways around the case, then the bullets are seated crooked and that also effects the OAL.
    I use an M-die on my LNL-AP press exclusively, that really helps with seating round nose bullets straight, with the correct nose profile seating stem. and with flat nose bullets, it's just effortless.

    I have the Hornady M-die type profile, PTX for 9mm, and it sticks in my cases so I quit using it unless I'm using my bullet feed die with tubes. With the bullet feeder die I have to use the PTX or leave my powder checking die out and that is one thing I will not do. I think it's NOS that makes PTX inserts for Hornady powder measures and they are supposed to not stick in the case at all. I've not tried to polish my PTX to improve it. That may work, I just don't use the bullet feeder die and Horandy PTX often enough to do it.
     
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  19. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    What I do with my PTX inserts is take a mop that fits the hole, insert it into a drill and use crocus cloth or 1000 grit paper then use some Fritz or similar polish on the expander end. it makes a big difference.
     
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  20. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    I figured using flat seat stem that would only touch the tip of the rn bullets and measuring to the tip would be most accurate way of measuring any variance caused by the press. That way ogive variance couldn't effect measured OAL. I would usually be using the other stem tho for rn. Hornady floating seater does a suprising good job getting the bullets straight even using the flat stem! With the lee dies close to half my 9mm rounds were visually crooked no matter what I tried.

    Cool thing about if I decide to size and prime on single stage is I can run separate expander, powder measure, check die, and still seat and crimp separate
     
  21. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    It is really hard to try to guess at the force required to seat it. I've been trying to resist a guess....wonder if I can come up with something to hook a torque wrench on. I suppose any actual measurement would be irrelevant. But It's a huge difference compared to both my lee turret and ss seating those primers. Might be enough that Im not likely to use the lnl as a true progressive. If lpp is twice as bad I'm sure I wouldn't.
     
  22. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    I agree with Tiger about using the proper seating stem for what bullet you are using.
     
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  23. mstreddy

    mstreddy Member

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    OP, if you decide to size/deprime as a separate step, you don't have to do it on the single stage or turret. You can just do it on the LNL. On 9MM that's what I do. I set up my sizing die and sometimes the flare/expander die in the press, lube up a bunch of 9MM cases and take them for a spin on the carousel. Sometimes I'll prime in that process as well. Most times I prime when I set up for powder and bullet seating.
    For 9MM, I'm sizing as much as I can to prevent issues in my very tight chambered Glock 17 Lone Wolf barrel. Several years ago I found that some cases were not getting sized down enough and they gave me problems in that barrel. I changed to this two step/phase process for 9MM and no issues since.
    I'll usually grab around 300-400 pieces of brass, lube with one-shot, size/deprime (maybe flare) and set aside for later loading. When it's time to load them, I just take out the sizing die, put in the expander die (if I hadn't done it), powder measure and seating/crimping die. And take the cases for another spin on the press.

    Mind you, for all other pistol calibers I load on the LNL, I just do everything in one pass. That's both small and large pistol primed brass. I load 32 ACP, 380 ACP, 38 Spcl, 357 Mag, 40 S&W, 38 Super, 45 ACP, 45 GAP, 45 Colt, and just recently started 44 Spcl and Mag.
    I don't find that there is a great deal of force for most priming, but it's just a different motion, you're pushing on lever away from you rather than down towards you, and maybe that takes some getting used to. Though I have found problems if the shellplate bolt isn't snugged down. When it's loose the primer seating will be all over the place and high more often than not. One mod I did to mine is use a lock washer under that bolt, and I have dime under the primer punch.
     
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  24. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I figured that was what you were doing with numbers like that. Try your procedure again with the correct profile seating stem and you should see an improvement on your OAL variances.
     
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  25. Suedenflames68

    Suedenflames68 Member

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    Yup got that lock washer and made sure shell plate wasnt loose along the way . It doesnt take abnormal pressure to seat them flush or above. I just tried some more and realized I'm just hitting the mechanical limits of the punch. Guess I need to take it off and grind that nut down some. I think I was just smashing it down hard enough to get a little extra to get it barely below flush. Actually have a divot from the nut next to the punch mark on the frame. Tried pushing hard enough to flex the handle 1/2" and pick up front corner of 8' bench. I cant lift this bench.
    Just tried priming one in lnl pushed it several times that hard ,spinning the case each time and measured .001 below flush. I've tried applying easily over 100lbs of force... then walk over to the single stage with it's short handle , barely push it ,maybe 20lbs of force, and primer drops to .004 under. Not used to pushing against a mechanical stop and just kept smashing it trying to get em deeper.

    I'll see what the shims do to tighten it up before I go grinding I guess. Have a .007 static gap under shell plate. Flexes/rocks up to .018 under moderate priming force.
     
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