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I won this Krag - question about handguard

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by Bullseye, May 16, 2017.

  1. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    I could have sworn from the picture that the last digit of the model number was a "4." Anyway, the stock is not an 1898 since it has the early bevel around the bolt handle. I'm anxious to see the more detailed pictures.
     
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  2. Dog Soldier
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    Dog Soldier Member

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    I prefer the .303 Brit brass for reloading. It has a thicker rim allowing a better lock up. These are a couple of early 19th century Cavalry fire arms. The Saddle Ring Krag and the C-96. Mauser 7.63 x 25. ;)

    IMG_0938[278].jpg
     
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  3. Bullseye
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    Bullseye Member

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    Okee doke ... I cleaned it up, the rifling is there but not strong, there are no pits inside the barrel. The bolt looks pretty good. I can't get the single shot selector to move. The stock was cracked badly. There are no cartouches or other markings on the stock visible, so I suppose if it is a good working rifle, a reproduction stock is probably the least expensive ( but not cheap ) conversion to get it back to closest I can to whatever this is supposed to be. It appears it is repaired bubba style with glass bedding material and I don't even think it cured right or was cleaned up.
    If it holds, well then it is what it is or if it's worth restoring further, I might restock it with a repro.
    The barrel measures 21 and 1/4 inches roughly from the point where it meets the receiver. How far in it goes, I don't know.
    It is not a 1898 .... It is a 1896 I think. That's what it looks like to me upon a close up photo below. The serial number looks to be 95101.
    That wood handguard section I am missing would measure roughly 8 and 3/4 inches. If the rear sight is not where it's supposed to be, then I have another issue. Here's a bunch of images I took tonight.
    That one near the bayonet lug where the wood looks silver is a strange thing why it looks silver. It looks like walnut wood to me without a camera. I don't know why it did that unless the oil I used is reflecting that way?

    I hope that I have not wasted anyones time. I have mixed feelings. I keep beating myself up over the stock. ( Like I cracked it beating myself ) for not seeing such an obvious problem. I didn't have my glasses on and the rifles was not in great light. This repair shown is enhanced some with the flash. It really jumps out with the camera and doesn't look as bad as the pictures but it's there.

    I do reload for Krag. Usually I shoot round nose cast gas checked bullets. I like my pet load with my sporterized Krag that I have.

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    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  4. Bullseye
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    Bullseye Member

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  5. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    I think the crack in the stock can be made to look a lot better, with careful sanding, filling, and staining. It's an 1896 stock, to match the receiver. The rear sight, however, is the early M1892 / 94 version. It has the same footprint as the M1896 sight. The correct handguard is the long one, that covers the receiver ring. Adding the handguard would improve the looks of the rifle a lot.

    I see that it has an additional tapped hole (with a filler screw) in the barrel behind the rear sight. This tells me that at one time it had one of the longer sights, such as the M1898, M1901, or M1902. (This hole would be covered up by the handguard.) This supports my theory that the handguard went missing when the sight was changed.

    You should get the 3-piece jointed cleaning rod, and the chrome-plated oiler, to fit in the buttstock. Also, the proper sling.

    The shortening of the barrel, and the installation of the M1905 Springfield front sight, was well done. This was probably an armory alteration.
     
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    The question is, whose armory?
    It is not the detail configuration of the PC (Girard College) it resembles and I have never heard of another government short rifle conversion.
     
  7. Bullseye
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    Bullseye Member

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    I am still wondering if I got the handguard figured out. From what I think I learned from you guys, I need the very top one on this page.
    http://partsforantiqueguns.com/Krag (Springfield) Upper Handguards.htm

    I have been having a exhausting but very good day. The coin sale went well. Not fantastic but I didn't take a beating at all.
    Then when I finally had a chance to get on here, I have a message from one of my very most favorite people on this forum who is going to hook me up with a stock for a song. I don't know which song I'll have to sing, but I will polish up on my Marty Robbins and Johnny Cash repertoire in the shower in the morning.
     
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  8. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Yes, that's right. Notice that it extends rearward to cover the receiver ring. That's a characteristic of the Model 1896.

    Honestly, I don't think you should replace the stock. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to shorten it, and they did a good job. What are you going to do, chop another perfectly good stock? Regarding the crack, what I would do is remove the epoxy to a depth of about 1/8" and fill it with melted stick shellac, colored to match the rest of the wood. (It's applied with a hot spatula and sanded flush when hardened.) This is the way restorations were done years ago. If you do this right, you will hardly be able to see the repair.
    http://homeguides.sfgate.com/use-shellac-stick-99395.html
    http://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-...-080-528-025&gclid=CJ6S9L-GgNQCFRRMDQodQdkGGQ
     
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  9. Bullseye
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    Bullseye Member

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    I am not ruining a perfectly good stock, I'm upgrading my rifle, thanks to my good friend who is sending it to me as a gift for this purpose.
    This will be a very special rifle to me because of his generosity. I couldn't be happier just because of that. It will look very nice when I get it finished.
     
  10. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Did no one notice the big chunk of wood missing from behind the magazine on the right side? That stock is not just cut down, it is ruined. It might be fixed, but the guy who could do that right would charge more than you paid for the gun. Sorry, but it is just another one of many thousands of Krags that were fiirst "sporterized" (they were all of $1.50 from DCM in the 1920's) and then "restored" by someone with a bunch of scrap parts but no clue as to what an original Krag looks like.

    Jim
     
  11. boom boom

    boom boom Member

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    New, old Krag stocks do come up from time to time on Ebay, especially the cut ones or long rifle stocks converted to ersatz carbine stocks. S&S Firearms in NY sells a replacement wood extension for stocks cut at the lower barrel band which is of good quality and splicing this is pretty easy woodworking. I can't remember but believe that they might also have a replacement front piece for the carbine for a cut stock. Bob's Gun Parts in Royal Ark at one time had replacement Krag stocks.

    Criterion sells new long rifle and carbine barrels for about two bills.
     
  12. boom boom

    boom boom Member

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    I suspect that Prvi Partisan is making both Graf's .303 and .30 Krag brass. At least mine mike very close to the same rim thickness and also when compared with Prvi Headstamped .303 from other sources such as AIM Surplus. The ironic thing is most people used to make .303 brass from .30 Krag in the day.
     
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  13. Dog Soldier
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    Dog Soldier Member

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    Yes, It is my understanding that the Krag would fire the .303 as well as the .30-40. The reverse would not interchange. I do prefer the .303 brass for reloading as opposed to the .30-40.

    I do not have specific prove regarding this. It is only my experience.:)
     
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  14. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I read somewhere that the "school" guns, which I believe you have here, where conversions done by Benincia Arsenal in California to provide the Army with an interim short rifle or "US Carbine, Cal.30, Model 1898 for Sling and Bayonet," which is why they weren't redated. They were, originally, almost identical to the Constabulary guns. Adoption of the 1903 rifle made them unnecessary and they were never type-standardized. The barrels were shortened, turned down for the bayonet, and remachined for a regular Krag front sight- which usually fell off. Mine is one of these which wound up as an RKO pictures prop gun, was fitted with a blank adapter, and was most likely used in Gunga Din......if only I could prove mine was the one used by Carey Grant!
     
  15. tark

    tark Member

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    Nein ! Nyet! Not even!! A 303 will not chamber in a 30-40, the shoulder is too far forward. The bullet is .003 (.311) too large for the Krag"s (.308) bore anyway. I cant get the bolt on any of my Enfields to close on a 30-40 round, although the cartridge seems to fully chamber. The rims seem to be the same diameter and thickness, so that one's a mystery. Probably would be safe if the bolt would close.
     
  16. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I think the accepted practice is to cut down and fully resize the krag cases to make .303, whereas to go the other way just a quick case mouth resize is needed for the smaller bullets. BTW although .303 rounds will chamber in a Krag, the CPI max pressure is several thousand PSI too high, even IF that particular bore measures .311 (or more!).
     
  17. tark

    tark Member

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    Excuse me??? Have you tried this??? .303 British rounds WILL NOT CHAMBER in a Krag!! The shoulder is too far forward. I have a number of both rifles and none of my Krags will chamber a .303 round. Since 30-40 ammo is so hard to find, .303 brass is commonly re-formed to Krag brass, but the shoulder must be set back and the case fire formed. You end up with a usable, if slightly shorter, case.
     
  18. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    You are quite correct. Ran out and bought a box of .303 at the LGS to try this......didn't work......now I guess I have to get an Enfield to use up this extra ammo.....
     
  19. tark

    tark Member

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    Now, THAT is sound logic!:D
     
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