I wonder...Vacuum Sealing Ammo

Status
Not open for further replies.

sparkyv

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Messages
4,062
Location
Deepinnaheartta, Texas
Nice general ammo storage/rotation/supply article

This post ^^^ reminded me of this: I've wondered if vacuum sealing in a bag is a good idea. I've done this to some bulk 22LR several years ago and it's held up fine with no noticeable detrememental effect. It shoots like new. My wondering is centered on the effect of removal of volatile compounds from the powder by the reduced presssure. So far, no ill effect for me.
 
I see no need to vacuum seal any ammo. Ammo is pretty robust. Store it inside where it won't get wet and there should be no problems. I have some around thirty year old PMC Target ammo that I recently fired some of. It shot just as well as it did when brand new. The reason it's so old is that the"target" designation seemed to mean it would hit some where on the target paper which is what it did. One here, one over there, thru any gun I fired it in. It still does the exact same thing.
 
I don't see a need to vacuum seal, but sealing in heavy plastic and just removing enough air to flatten it out would make it easier to pack for camping etc.
 
Oxidation is the first thing to prevent, in bulk storage the military has it wrapped and sealed. Ammo will sit for years that way in a earth berm sheltered bunker with no humidity or heating/AC at all. The military doesn't nitrogen charge it to expel oxygen, and doesn't vacuum wrap to remove it, either. Propellants already carry oxygen for ignition and power anyway, not using any from the atmosphere. The biggest issue is humidity, water in the air, and that is why they seal it. We could all do more of the same, I dug into my case of PMC recently, and found some corroded ammo. Too much humidity. It all fired fine however, and it's pre 2001 vintage. I do need to get it up off the floor, tho, as that location, for all we try to do, can and will flood again. Nobody wants to rescue a soggy waterladen box of wet pulpboard with 600 rounds in it.

Dont bother with too much special stuff, get the humidity down and keep it at a stable temperature to prevent condensation on it, and you are good to go. It will last a decade clean and dry. Ammo Handler MOS teaches you a lot, and it not all what I thought.
 
Interesting idea. Vacuum sealing could eliminate problems from humidity or dampness but wouldn't the ammo still be affected by temperature extremes that they say are bad for it? Just my thoughts off the top of my head, as I'm only guessing about it. I always heard that stable temps with no extremes and a relatively low humidity were the key.
 
I keep my ammunition in sealed cans. Before I seal them up I leave it sitting out for a few days in my air-conditioned house to bring down whatever moisture content they may have which is probably minimal anyway. Seal the cans and it's good to go. Just make sure there are no holes in the metal and the lid gasket is in good shape. After that store it someplace where it won't be hot for long periods of time. Nothing more is necessary.
 
Nice general ammo storage/rotation/supply article

This post ^^^ reminded me of this: I've wondered if vacuum sealing in a bag is a good idea. I've done this to some bulk 22LR several years ago and it's held up fine with no noticeable detrememental effect. It shoots like new. My wondering is centered on the effect of removal of volatile compounds from the powder by the reduced presssure. So far, no ill effect for me.

I don't think it is bad to vacuum pack, it might do some good in keeping water off the brass. As long as the case is sealed, and I assume it is sealed, won't make any difference to the gunpowder inside. Nitrocellulose gunpowder has double bonded NO molecules and those double bonds break. Anything ionic breaks those bonds, water is polar covalent and acts ionic, so humidity is bad. But, those bonds are going to break, and temperature is the worst commonly found environmental condition for gunpowder. The hotter it gets, the faster gunpowder deteriorates.

Vacuum pack and keep it cool. I have not studied frozen, but I have heard that real cold has done weird things to the nitroglycerin in double based powders.
 
Volatiles, like chemicals in powder, will "boil off" faster under vacuum, not slower, dependant on the vapor pressure of the specific material.

Advantages to vacuum sealing ammo is great for mechanisms like oxidation - brass will stay shiny longer.

However, if you are doing it to try and preserve the powder, you are likely shortening the powder life, not extending it.

There may be things in powder that require oxygen to break down, but I'm not aware of any.
 
I have a bunch of 303 British and 762x54r that is in vacuum sealed bags. The vacuum sealed bags are kept in military ammo cans.
I also have a lot of 7.62 NATO in battle packs.
 
I keep my ammunition in sealed cans. Before I seal them up I leave it sitting out for a few days in my air-conditioned house to bring down whatever moisture content they may have which is probably minimal anyway. Seal the cans and it's good to go. Just make sure there are no holes in the metal and the lid gasket is in good shape. After that store it someplace where it won't be hot for long periods of time. Nothing more is necessary.

I find my 'good' surplus ammo cans will pop and click as the metal flex's from barometric pressure changes.
 
I have a gear bag in each car that I put vacuum sealed bags of ammo in. I'll take 100 rounds of general purpose handloaded ammo (usually Xtreme plated HPs, although they do not really expand) and seal them up. They are reasonably flat, a bag of even 45auto can slide into the larger cargo pants leg pocket. I have used older bags for range ammo and notice no difference even after being in the trunk for a year or so before I rotate it out for range use. It's a convenient way to carry it in my opinion.
 
In the past month or two I shot a box each 22lr, 38 spl. And 12ga. near 10 years old to rotate out. Stored in original box nothing more. No bags, nothing. Shot just fine.
 
I was given a bunch of reloading supplies and equipment by a friend who was getting out of it. Of the items there were thousands or primers, in original packaging that itself was vacuum sealed in bags. He did this because they were stored in his non climate controlled garage. All I have used so far have worked the same as the ones I store inside, not vacuum sealed.
 
A friend of mine claimed had had some problems with vacuum sealed .22 LR ammo years ago. He chalked it up to the vacuum sealing, but it was cheap ammo. I believe the vacuum sealing had nothing to do with it.
He did this in the 80’s.
Anyway, he quit vacuum sealing ammo and instead he put factory ammo in its original boxes in ammo cans that had rubber sealed lids and he tossed in chunks of dry ice (frozen CO2) to disperse the oxygen as it melted then he closed up the lid for storage. He stored reloads loose in the ammo cans and used dry ice as well.

One day I met him at the range and he had an ammo can full of loose 9mm ammo. It was ammo he stored in the early 80’s using his CO2 technique and it looked brand new and shot well.

I really don’t recall what size the chunk of dry ice was that he used in each can but I do know he let it dissipate completely before closing the lid. CO2 is heavier than air and pushes out the oxygen.
 
You can set a steel ammo can in the sun for a while and if you close it after it heats up, it will vacuum seal itself. Of course this only works with cans that have gaskets and it may increase the force needed to open the can later.

Also, if airtight cans are closed at high altitude, they can form a vacuum at lower elevations. This is why some airtight containers like Pelican cases have built-in relief valves.

I did try vacuum sealing some of my handgun reloads in plastic pouches and found it made them harder to handle and store due to the rigidity caused by the vacuum. The pouches would no longer conform to the shape of any storage container. It was much like handling freeze dried food pouches. I found the heat sealed plastic pouches work better without vacuum.
 
I have basically all my ammo in sealed military cans, most of them being brand new production and not the beat up surplus ones with iffy gaskets. I have a pretty good stash of 5.56 from 2008-2010, I haven't shot any of it in a while but I'm sure it will be good for another 10-20-30-+ years if kept sealed.

The only ammo that isn't kept sealed is stuff I plan to use pretty immediately, have some boxes of assorted calibers in my range bag, 12ga target loads.

I've had 11 USGI magazines loaded for about a decade with M855 Green tip and another 11 loaded with LC 08 5.56 for the same amount of time. I think it's all pretty much good to go, I'm going to burn a mag from each and make sure of it pretty soon...
 
If I were planning on burying ammo or storing it in a non climate controlled setting, I would consider vacuum sealing. Politically, things would have to get much worse for me to vacuum seal ammo caches.
 
Is regular sand itself a dessicant. Desert sand, not beach sand, if there is a difference.

Seems a lot of artifacts in the desert last 100s & 100s of years, especially if out of the sun

If so my vote would be, fill the voids in the ammo bag with sand and vac seal.
 
Vacuum pack and keep it cool. I have not studied frozen, but I have heard that real cold has done weird things to the nitroglycerin in double based powders.
As I understand it, it's not just with double based powders.
I was was told by someone at Atlas Powder Co. that when the search for oil reserves in Alaska, using special dynamite, the nitroglycerin became super sensitive. They drill holes in a formation and put tubes of dynamite in the holes, with some amount of force, for seismic readings. After a couple guys were killed, they started putting a type of antifreeze in the gel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top