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Ideas Kill: Science sheds light on massacres.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by ChrisPer, Oct 16, 2006.

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  1. ChrisPer

    ChrisPer Member

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    I have prepared an article on something the mainstream media have not given much play: the media reports themselves are apparently a prime cause of massacres. The news report that almost certainly inspired the Port Arthur massacre featured Roland Browne, a green-left public advocate type lawyer, and Rebecca Peters, now of IANSA.

    Ideas Kill Article
     
  2. ChrisPer

    ChrisPer Member

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    I worked on this for months; you don't like it? Pity.

    Edit: this comment refers to a needlessly critical and decidedly non-High-Road post by a troll that has since been deleted.

    -Coronach
     
  3. pax

    pax Member

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    Wow, excellent paper.

    Worth the read!

    pax
     
  4. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Like many of these arguments, it's tough to get cause=effect directly, but you make a very good argument.

    Thanks for posting it.

    What do you plan to do with that paper and why did you write it?
     
  5. jfh

    jfh Member

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    I'm with you, Pax--

    an excellent read.

    I suggest the poster C&P some of the fundamental observations to provide a direct context.
     
  6. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    Very well written. I like both the form and the content.

    It needs just one thing for us Yanks: A very short prologue with the who, what, and where of the Port Arthur Massacre.

    But that would only be a minor improvement on an already excellent paper.
     
  7. Sylvan-Forge

    Sylvan-Forge Member

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    Blood sells and monkey see, monkey do.

    ChrisPer, very good paper.
    Thanks for sharing.



    'Tis a fine line between informing the public and giving publicity.

    Refer to the act. If people just have to know the name, let them search for the initial reports.

    Word will get around nonetheless, but why aid the scum in glorifying their names in every followup report?

    I do not say make up some stupid law. Only that media should attempt to conduct itself with honor. If you are re-reporting a story, omit the names.
    Reference the original report as is professional courtesy.

    If at all possible,
    Utter not the identities of foulness.
     
  8. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Very good write-up.
     
  9. GoRon

    GoRon Member

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    Excellent article.

    Thanks for the link.
     
  10. Y.T.

    Y.T. member

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    A bit of anecdotal evidence in support of copycat theory.
    There was a series of self-immolations some time ago in spring of 2003 in Czech Republic.

    There was media coverage of each one, and the first one (in march 2003) probably also reported the character and possible motivations of the suicide.
    A 19 yr old student was in trouble for running a website about "darkers", people who throw switches on local high voltage (several kilovolt range) power lines for fun.

    There were five attempts in april of 2003, and eight more during the following year.

    Some people argue, that it's not caused by media coverage of these suicides, but because of media coverage of commemorations of the self-immolation of Jan Palach.
    He set himself on fire in january of 1969, in protest against the Warsaw Pact occupation of Czechoslovakia**.
    Two more people did the same thing in the following year. Palach may have been inspired* by a polish Home Army fighter and lawyer Ryszard_Siwiec.
    (information was supressed, but rumours spread among people who trusted each other)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryszard_Siwiec
    (Who did a much better job of it)...

    **Then the most neutral country in world. We couldn't even meddle in our own affairs. (Preceding sentence is a joke)
     
  11. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    Dude! You posted it for a whole 25 minutes when most people were just getting to work! Slow down! You took time to write it, give us time to read it. :eek:
     
  12. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    ctdonath, there used to be a post between #1 and #2, from a fellow who was unreservedly critical. #2 is referring to that now missing post.
     
  13. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    Thank you for making this paper available.
     
  14. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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  15. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Member

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    Thanks... Looks good.... Is this a paper for Fun, School or political purposes?
     
  16. carpediem

    carpediem Member

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    Nice work.
     
  17. LoveMyCountry

    LoveMyCountry Member

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Isn't this the same thing as saying that it wasn't my fault, the movie/game/cartoon made me do it?


    Insane people can fixate on anything.


    LoveMyCountry
     
  18. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Well written, yes.

    Important? I think not. As has been said by at least one other, there are plenty of other models for the insane to follow, should they desire. In the end, each person is responsible for thier own actions.
     
  19. jlbraun

    jlbraun Member

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    Wait wait wait. I don't like this article, and I don't like the premise or the conclusion.

    How can we hold that "guns don't kill, the person holding it does", yet also say that "ideas kill, and those who spread ideas are responsible for what people do with those ideas?" As gun owners, we should be very suspicious of any statement that implies anything other than the person themselves is responsible for all their actions, for good or bad.

    I really don't like where this article goes. There's a very short path between saying that spreading an idea about killing makes one partially responsible for the killings that occur, and actively arresting those that spread ideas that are "dangerous". :scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:
     
  20. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

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    +1. Nothing is easier than pointing the finger of blame.
     
  21. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    Interesting article.

    Actually, I saw some reference (didn't look into it) to comparable effect a few months ago: that a very significant number of dramatic fatal traffic accidents can be traced back to someone being told not long before that traffic accidents are dramatic and fatal, with details given. Sounds kinda silly, but amounts to people are not prone to doing something unless they've heard of it. Similar here: many killers do so significantly in part becuase they got the idea somewhere else.

    Realistically, little that people do is not based on others having already done it. Few people come up with new, and especially dangerous, ideas on their own out of the blue.

    As oft noted, there were practically no school shootings when kids were allowed to bring guns to school.
    As oft noted (including the lead paper here), a great many mass shootings are modeled after some event, game, movie, news report, etc.

    We hold the actor (perp) 100% responsible because it was his choice to engage in the activity. Nobody else made them do it.
    Most likely, however, they got the idea from somewhere. In our "information age", a great many suggestions are thrust upon most people. These suggestions do have influence (witness advertising - trillions spent not for naught). Once in a great while, someone takes that idea and chooses to act on it.

    The central issue is choice (as Leftists so love in word and hate in deed). People choose to expose themselves to violent ideas. Be thankful that so few choose to act similarly.

    It's not the guns.
    It's not the media.
    It's those few who choose to act out both in a knowingly lethal manner.
     
  22. Spartacus451

    Spartacus451 Member

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    Excellent article

    I think I will drop it on the lunch table at work...
     
  23. jlbraun

    jlbraun Member

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    @ctdonath

    I still don't like it. I don't think that it's all that hard to go from "People can have ideas to do bad things." to "Likely, they got their ideas from somewhere else." to "Those who spread dangerous ideas should be careful" to "ideas by themselves are dangerous, and we should carefully control what ideas are allowed to spread" to "arrest and detain this person, his ideas are dangerous." to "Disappear this person. (bang!) (whump)".

    What about when Catholicism or Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Jainism or atheism or owning guns is declared a "dangerous idea"?

    The problem is, if I say that X is a "dangerous idea", there's no way to prove me wrong. My ability to persuade you is all the proof I'll ever need.

    If anything, this article shows that what is needed is more learning on how to resist the pull of ideas to do harmful things NOT restrict ideas that are dangerous, and hold those who spread them accountable. The former is "critical thinking", the latter is NON-thinking and frankly scary.

    Am I being too "liberal"?

    :scrutiny:
     
  24. GoRon

    GoRon Member

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    One has to wonder if it isn't so much the fact that the events are reported by the media but HOW they are reported.

    The wall to wall crises mode the news shifts into creates the impression that the event is an even bigger deal than it is. Breathless reporters, experts weighing in with expert opinions, it is all part of news as entertainment.

    The weak minded motivated by evil see it as a chance to be the star of the circus.
     
  25. pax

    pax Member

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    Companies pay millions of dollars for a few brief seconds of advertising space during the Super Bowl. They pay that money because they believe that the message they put out will alter the viewers' behavior.

    And ... it does. Advertising works.

    Does that mean it's the advertisers' fault that I ate at Jack in the Box yesterday? Nope, that was my very own choice.

    But there's no doubt that human behavior is in fact influenced by what we see on the tube.

    If it weren't, you can be sure that the big companies' execs would be pocketing that cash instead of spending it.

    pax
     
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