Identifying same or similar/comparable powders during component shortage

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by LiveLife, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    We are in yet another component shortage and thought this may help some members/guests identify same or similar/comparable powders for load development.

    Repost from reference thread in "Reloading Library of Wisdom" -
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/same-comparable-close-powders-under-different-labels.797388/page-6#post-10806193

    Disclosure: While efforts were made by THR members based on available information obtained by the posting date, consider the accuracy posted with a grain of salt and please always reference published load data when developing your loads. When powders are recommended for calibers that lack current published load data, use them at your own risk.

    Same exact powders (Same published load data, powder burn rate, charge weight and volume):

    - Winchester W231 and Hodgdon HP-38
    - Hodgdon HS-6 and Winchester W540
    - Hodgdon HS-7 and Winchester W571
    - Ramshot Silhouette and Winchester WAP
    - Ramshot Enforcer and Accurate 4100
    - Winchester W296 and Hodgdon H110
    - Hodgdon H4227 and IMR 4227
    - Accurate 2230 and Ramshot X-Terminator
    - Accurate 2520 and Ramshot Wild Boar
    - Alliant RL15 and Norma 203B
    - Winchester W760 and Hodgdon H414

    Comparable/close powders (Different load data, similar burn rate for reference BUT MUST USE published charge weight):

    - Alliant Bullseye and Vectan Ba10
    - Alliant Red Dot and Vectan Ba9 1/2
    - Alliant Red Dot and Alliant Promo (Alliant recommends using Red Dot load data by weight and not by volume)
    - Alliant Red Dot and IMR Red
    - Hodgdon Clays and Alliant Clay Dot (for shotgun loads)
    - Hodgdon Clays and IMR Trail Boss?
    - Hodgdon Clays/WST and Vectan Prima SV (for shotgun loads)
    - Winchester WST and Ramshot Competition
    - Accurate No. 2 and Shooters World Clean Shot/Lovex D032-03
    - Hodgdon Titegroup and IMR Target
    - Hodgdon Titegroup and Vectan AS (for pistol loads) / Prima V (for shotgun loads)
    - Alliant Green Dot and IMR Green?
    - Winchester W231/HP-38 and Ramshot Zip
    - Winchester W231/HP-38 and Alliant Sport Pistol
    - Winchester W231/HP-38 and Winchester W244?
    - Winchester W231/HP-38 and Alliant Green Dot
    - Winchester W231/HP-38 and Vectan 206V (for shotgun loads)
    - Accurate No. 5 and Shooters World Auto Pistol/Lovex D036-03
    - Accurate No. 5 and Vectan D-20/GM3 (for shotgun loads)
    - Vihtavuori N330 and Vectan A1
    - Alliant Unique/Universal and Vectan Ba9
    - Alliant Unique and Hodgdon Universal Clays
    - Alliant Unique and IMR Unequal?
    - Alliant Unique and Alliant BE-86
    - Alliant Unique and Alliant 20/28
    - Alliant Power Pistol and Alliant BE-86 (Power Pistol is canister version of BE-84 and slower burning than BE-86)
    - Alliant BE-86 and Alliant Herco (for 40S&W based on 2004 Alliant load data. No current load data from Alliant for Herco and 40S&W)
    - Alliant Herco and Vectan A0
    - Hodgdon CFE Pistol and Winchester AutoComp
    - Winchester AutoComp and Shooters World Ultimate Pistol/Lovex D036-07
    - CFE Pistol and Ramshot Silhouette?
    - Winchester WSF and Ramshot Silhouette?
    - Accurate No. 7 and Shooters World Major Pistol/Lovex D037-01
    - Accurate No. 7 and Vectan Ba7 1/2
    - Alliant Blue Dot and IMR Blue?
    - Accurate No. 9 and Shooters World Heavy Pistol/Lovex D037-02
    - Accurate No. 9 and Vectan Ba6 1/2
    - Winchester W296/H110 and Alliant 300MP
    - Winchester W296/H110 and Vectan Ba6 1/2
    - Winchester W296/H110 and Vihtavuori N110
    - Accurate 11FS and Winchester Alliant 300-MP/Hodgdon H110/Winchester W296?
    - Accurate 5744 and Shooters World Cowboy/Lovex D060-01
    - Accurate 1680 and Shooters World Blackout/Lovex D063-02
    - Hodgdon H335 and Ramshot TAC
    - Hodgdon H335 and Accurate 2230
    - Hodgdon H335 and Shooters World AR Plus/Lovex D073-04
    - Hodgdon 4895 and IMR 4895
    - IMR 4895 and Accurate 2495?
    - Hodgdon Varget and Accurate 4064/Alliant RL15/IMR 4064?
    - Hodgdon Varget and Lovex S062-01
    - Hodgdon BL-C(2) and Winchester 748
    - Hodgdon BL-C(2) and Lovex D073-05
    - Hodgdon CFE223 and Accurate 2520
    - Hodgdon CFE223 and Shooters World Match Rifle/Lovex D073-06
    - Hodgdon 4350 and Lovex S070-01
    - Hodgdon 4831 and Lovex S071-01
    - Norma MRP and Alliant RL22?
     
  2. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    Welcome back! :)

    Helpful info.:thumbup:
     
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  3. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Where ya been?

    Bust any myths lately??:rofl:
     
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  4. mdi

    mdi Member

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  5. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Clarification:

    Hodgdon H4227 and IMR 4227 are not the same powder.

    From Hodgdon (6-23-2021):

    IMR 4227 and H4227 were different but they are so close that they can use the same data.

    Luke Otte
    Technical support
    6430 vista dr.
    Shawnee, Ks 66218
     
  6. GoldieMI
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    GoldieMI Contributing Member

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    Welcome Back!!!
     
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  7. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I'm pretty sure both of these are discontinued.
     
  8. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    It's good to be back.

    Life happened (Actually haven't fired a single shot since my THR post last year) ... Family issues mostly, particularly my aging parents and multiple deaths ... along with axed retirement plans for travel trailer life around the country (to check out retirement relocation spots) that ultimately prompted liquidation of nearly 90% of my shooting/reloading gear, equipment and supplies.

    But we can use PM for details so as to not distract from THR thread discussions.

    Haven't had a chance but after my cataract surgery, look forward to doing some more myth busting.

    That thread is quite old now but I can ask Walkalong to unlock it so we can update the information.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    We found out in previous component shortages that old powders and components, even discontinued powders, tend to surface as supply thins.

    As disclaimed, information posted was to benefit members/guests who may come across such powders during times of component shortage.
     
  10. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Glad to see you posting again. Yes life happens, sorry to here about the difficulties. I have had some as well.

    One day at a time, do what you can.:)

    "Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans".
     
  11. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    Live Life, glad to see your back. Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I was fortunate that both of my parents had a quick death, and had every thing in order.
     
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  12. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    OP glad you are back in good form. We all missed you and your timely posts. Great return post. I think the last year has affected most of us in one way or another as well! Now back to it.:thumbup:
     
  13. eb in oregon
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    eb in oregon Contributing Member

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    That makes them essentially equal then.
     
  14. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Looks like Hodgdon discontinued H4227 and currently only selling IMR 4227.
     
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  15. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    I think that's exactly what happened.
     
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  16. Soonerpesek

    Soonerpesek Member

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    Well, well well......
    Glad to see your posts again...
    Welcome back...!
     
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  17. Hondo 60
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    Hondo 60 Member

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    Threads like this cause me great consternation.
    Some young buck'll say "Oh, if I load 4gr of titegroup, I can load 4 gr of Accurate # 2.

    But we know it doesn't work that way.
    While they're both fast powders they are NOT interchangeable.

    Definitely NOT tryin' to flame the OP!
    Just tryin' to make the young bucks understand.

    Please stay safe
     
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  18. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    These info is from ADI powders. They make some of the powders we use here in the USA
    The equivalent chart is NOT A DIRECT SUBSTITUTE

    The picture chart was sent to me some time ago from ADI, It is powders they make.

    http://www.adi-powders.com.au/powder-equivalents/


    IMG_20150802_0001 (Large).jpg
     
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  19. Dale Alan

    Dale Alan Member

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    I don't see those two powders listed as being equals on the chart .
     
  20. Hondo 60
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    Hondo 60 Member

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    I did off the top of my head.

    Just trying to make the point that even powders that ARE listed as equals
    you CANNOT just use the same charge when switching powder.
     
  21. Dale Alan

    Dale Alan Member

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    Why muddy the waters ? The OP has a fine thread going with great info ! Now as you call them the "Young Bucks" may take a quick glance at your fantasy comparison and may think the powders are alike in error .
     
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  22. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    OK, Walkalong resurrected the archived dormant thread so we can update the listing - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/same-comparable-close-powders-under-different-labels.890893/#post-11973079

    Maybe we can use this thread for "discussion" and use the other thread for "listing updates".

    Do keep in mind that this is a group project and how comparable newer powders like Sport Pistol are to older powders will depend on actual THR member range test results when powder similarity information is lacking from powder manufacturers.

    Also remember that same/comparable powder recommendations are to be used when desired powder(s) cannot be found and alternate powder(s) are available when shopping around. And of course, always use published load data for your load development.
     
  23. eb in oregon
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    eb in oregon Contributing Member

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    As the burn rate charts are constructed from slowest to fastest please explain how two different powders with an almost identical burn rate can't use the same charge for the same cartridge and bullet weight as long as the minimum listed charge is used to start. And then explain how three different manufacturers of projectiles will each publish a book with popular powders for their projectiles but not use the same powder charges for a specific bullet/cartridge combination. Then tell us how you select a powder and charge that isn't listed in a reloading manual. I'm sure there are others as curious as I am to see your reply.
     
  24. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Good info for those using/have access to ADI powders.

    In the "Where are reloading components made?" thread, found out many Hodgdon/IMR powders were made in Australia and production shifted to Canada/USA in recent years -
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/where-are-reloading-components-made.577067/page-4#post-10297475

    But during component shortage, can't be picky and may have to work with whatever powders that are available.

    After last two component shortages, all the reloaders I know tested and transitioned to powders that were more readily available or stocked up on those that weren't.
     
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  25. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    Times such as these remind me of an old song verse. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with. Thanks for sharing the powder data and as mentioned always look to a manufacturer's or supplier's website for accurate load data for their powder and always work up loads using good work practices. Shortages often have us loading using components we can get verse those we may want. Sometimes we come away with new loads we actually like better than those we used in the past. I like Bullseye in my 38 Special and 357 loads but have been using Tite Group since I have several pounds of it laying around. Works fine for me so far.

    Ron
     
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