IDPA Draft Rule Changes

[johnmcl]

Hi all,

IDPA has a draft rule book that's out for public comment. A good friend of mine, Tony, did a quick look through and here's what he discovered as proposed changes:

• Sweeping one's leg on the draw while sitting clearly defined as a QD
• Range command COVER only only used at club matches
• Tactical Sequence gone (and no longer allowed). All targets tactical priority now
• Visible Cover reference lines may now be used
• Cover and reloads changed. can reload on the move, as long as not exposed to unengaged targets.
• 3 matches now before committing to IDPA membership
• Points down now = 1 second
• Clay birds are now a valid IDPA target
• New Penalty category: Flagrant Penalty (10 seconds). Used for intentional rules violations, gaming, cheating, intentionally breaking a rule/procedure to gain a competitive advantage, etc. FTDR still exists, but mostly for gross unsportsmanlike conduct.
• "Memory" Stages no longer allowed (another way of saying tactical sequence not allowed). Also states all targets in a string must have same number of shots, except one target. For example, first target gets 6, all others get 2 in the stage.
• Added Pistol Caliber Carbine Division (PCC)!
  
• Power factors have not changed. PCC PF is 135
• Changed official chronograph rules/procedures. In Tier 3 (and above), chrono now has to be a stage, and the shooter's gun will be used to chrono the shooter's ammo.
• Ammo carriers may now used a mixed method - both pocket AND belt are allowed simultaneously. However, the locations may not change during a match; i.e you store one in pocket and rest on belt, they must always be stored that way for the match.
• Clarified that shooting a sanctioned match in last 12 months counts as a classifier for that division. Also cleaned up wording about applying one classification to multiple divisions.
• Classifier times have changed
• Classifier COF has changed (3 stages, 8 strings total, 72 rounds limited). Should make for running classifiers much faster.
• Rule book now has an index!

I think the very worst of this is a proposed introduction of a pistol carbine into the play. IDPA is a pistol game, and providing the ability for a shoulder fired weapon is outside the cultural zone. The very best is allowing reloads on the move.

Thoughts?

 

[1KPerDay]

The very best is allowing reloads on the move.

Thoughts?

thanks for an excellent summary; I really appreciate it. I agree reloading on the move is good. That never made any sense to me. I also like the tactical sequence change. PCC I could take or leave, but kinda strange in IDPA IMO.

 

[Telekinesis]

I think the very worst of this is a proposed introduction of a pistol carbine into the play. IDPA is a pistol game, and providing the ability for a shoulder fired weapon is outside the cultural zone.

To be fair, I'm not active in IDPA, but I think adding a pistol caliber carbine division is good. It gives people the ability to practice with long arms in a defensive type of environment. I may be a bit biased though as I think that the defensive use of long arms is one area of shooting that could use some more expansion, especially when you think about places you can actually practice their use (there are plenty of classes teaching the use, but i find it's hard to get non-instructed practice in with rifles).

It allows shooters to use an already established competitive framework (i.e. Rules/regs and all those other things like classifications and who hosts the competitions are already settled) and doesn't alienate ranges who can't support movement and different angles of fire from a rifle (ballistically a PCC is close enough to a pistol that if your range is ok for pistol games, it'll be ok for a PCC). And to top it off, it's a separate division so the long arms aren't competing directly against the pistols (which I would agree would be unfair game wise).

Overall that's one of my favorite parts about the proposed rules. There are a lot more ranges near me that are offering IDPA (or other defensive pistol) type competition than there are ranges that offer 3 gun. But like I said, I'm an outsider and don't currently participate in IDPA.

 

[jmorris]

I gave up on IDPA not too long after Joyce got it from Bill after the divorce.

I had enjoyed the more stable game I had become used to for the decade before. The rule changes and reasons behind them didn't make much sense, to me.

These two don't either, maybe.

• Tactical Sequence gone (and no longer allowed). All targets tactical priority now
• ...
• Cover and reloads changed. can reload on the move, as long as not exposed to unengaged targets.

So this means you can reload on the move when?

At one point you could, with say 3 targets that required 2ea, fire 1,1 and one at each and they became "engaged", so at that point, nothing you did could take place "exposed to unengaged targets" before you finished the COF. However, if Tac sequence is no longer allowed, you are back to all shots fired behind cover and flat foot reloads (unless you dump rounds somewhere else on the stage).

I forget the last position on "dumping" but despite what looks like attempts at taking out subjective calls, like allowing foot fault lines. It's not good to see even further subjective rules like the "new penalty category", where we are no longer applying penalties based on actions but now we can actually see what is going on inside the mind of competitors.

On second thought, they are not going to get me back that way but that's why the only "public comments" they allow are current members and my membership expired a few years after I found something better to do.

 

[Jim Watson]

I opposed PCC considering that the first thing said is that IDPA is based on concealed weapons suitable for all day carry. If you want to shoot a rifle, try 3GN or Multigun.

The traveling reload will speed up the stage but I have seen tacticians to bemoan the practice of leaving cover with an empty or only partly loaded gun.

Telekinesis, if you will pop over to Brock's Gap on the Second Saturday, we will let you actually shoot IDPA whereupon your opinion will be taken seriously.

...after Joyce got it from Bill after the divorce.

Have you got dirt and details on that? I knew Bill was not much in evidence any more, but I did not know Golddigger Joyce had already dropped him.

 

[johnmcl]

I believe the moving reload rule change is meant to allow reloads while moving behind cover, such as a wall. Leaving cover with a gun partially loaded is ok, leaving with it empty is problematic.

I still find IDPA fun, and that's enough for me. I get it that IDPA is not a democracy, but a benevolent dictatorship. Even though IDPA is private property, and I'm sure part of my annual dues goes to a personal bank account in Little Rock, IDPA still provides fun filled Saturday mornings with my friends and guns. I'm in and will remain so.

 

[Jim Watson]

3.6.2 In stages with cover or concealment, shooters may reload standing still or on the move any time as long as they are not exposed to unengaged targets during the reload.

Leaving cover with an empty gun is no longer addressed.

 

[ny32182]

Best changes:
-Reload rules
-Fault lines

Worst:
-PCC

Overall, anything they do to reduce subjectivity in common officiating decisions is a positive, and I think that happened here. Will it be enough to pull me back into sanctioned IDPA competition, probably not.

 

[egd]

Being semi-new to competitive shooting I don't know hardly anything about the history of the two main groups, and I don't really care all that much. I shoot just because it's fun. But being from Little Rock I'd like to know what the reference was to Little Rock. Did the IDPA start here?
As for the rules, anything they can do to make it less complicated and picky would be a benefit IMO. I shoot pcc in uspsa and steel challenge, and I love it. But I can understand the thoughts about it being a pistol organization. I do feel there's room for both though.

 

[johnmcl]

egd, IDPA is actually HQ'd in Berryville. My somewhat harsh comment was that some of the money goes into the IDPA owner's bank account. I was guessing it was in LR, but that's just a detail.

 

[egd]

Oh, ok, thanks

 

[NWcityguy2]

I like the new classifier rules. Running a classifier match is a long day, especially when people bring multiple guns or demand re-shoots for mental errors.

 

[Rick McC.]

I don't at all agree with tactical sequence going away.

I found that to be a practical skill with a high liklihood of real world application.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I found that to be a practical skill with a high liklihood of real world application.

I found just the opposite.

I've tried this in a couple of different fighting, not competition, classes and there really is no advantage...unless you believe that you are accurate enough to place a shot in the CNS of each threat at speed.

You'd have a much greater real world advantage just moving laterally as you drew your gun

 

[egd]

I haven't shot all that much idpa, but the only rules that make any real sense to me is the one about staying behind cover and "slicing the pie"

 

[Rick McC.]

I found just the opposite.

I've tried this in a couple of different fighting, not competition, classes and there really is no advantage...unless you believe that you are accurate enough to place a shot in the CNS of each threat at speed.

You'd have a much greater real world advantage just moving laterally as you drew your gun

Not sure what you mean.

Tactical sequence is used for multiple assailants with you in the open, where each gets one shot before additional shots are put on target.

So; "one shot each before anyone gets seconds."

If I were ever firing without cover, I would definitely be moving!

I don't participate in IDPA as a sport; I use it to keep the skills that I've acquired in training current.

Take care,

 

[9mmepiphany]

Not sure what you mean.

Tactical sequence is used for multiple assailants with you in the open, where each gets one shot before additional shots are put on target.

So; "one shot each before anyone gets seconds."

What I mean is that that belief is a loser except in very limited situations

I used to believe that it was better to have a shot on each foe than to be sure of putting the first Bad Guy (BG) down before moving to the second...it isn't. It would take the time it would take you to put 2 shots into the first BG for the second to react. Remember that you are close enough top make good hits as speed. Even if it takes you half a second to fire the first 2 shots, it will take the second BG .25 sec to react to your first shot. You should be able to engage the second BG before he brings his gun to bear.

This was first demonstrated to me by Ernie Langdon engaging 3 targets at arms length, with 2 shots each, in 2 seconds. Ernie could also shoot Tac Sequence if needed...he's just won the IDPA Nationals (Match Campion) shooting a Beretta 92...he was just sharing his experience as a Marine Corp trainer for Close Protection Tactics

 

[jmorris]

I am pretty sure this is not a joke. Brian posted this photo of a new PCC "holster".

 

[ATLDave]

If they're trying to realistically simulate the use of AR's by the folks who OC them as defensive weapons, they should stipulate that the competitor must always start with a burrito in the weak hand.

 

[1KPerDay]

Lol

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know if the carbine holster will work in IDPA PCC but it would make me feel safer than a long gun flopping around on a sling and it would speed up match operation versus unbagging and rebagging.

 

[ATLDave]

As a USPSA match director, I actually do like the fact that the trigger is covered. That's what we require of pistols. Somehow, an exposed trigger on a rifle is no big deal? "Oh, don't worry, it's unloaded and I didn't point it at anyone." If rifle: "OK, cool." If pistol: "Yer outta here!"

 

[jmorris]

I think PJ's would make the best concealment garment for them.

 

[johnmcl]

The new rule book is published. The hard copy sent to me has impossibly small print size. I'm going to need one of those flip down magnifiers for my safety glasses.

 

[Jim Watson]

I printed out the rules from the PDF early on.
I think the official hard copy is a case of "You wanted a rule book that would fit your range bag. OK, here it is, good luck because we are not changing the format from the computer version."