If teachers could have guns, ....

[btefft]

If teachers could have guns, ....

I was on another forum and I read a signature that said, "If teachers could have guns, how many innocent kids would be alive today?"

On that forum I responded to the signature with my .02 cents worth. Here's what I said. What are your thoughts?


I just retired after teaching high school science classes, in a puble school, here in Columbus Ga, for 30 years. I don't think most teachers are equipped to handle a gun in a situation like I think you're talking about. We have been trained to teach, and that's a full time endeavor, in itself. In fact, I know that most of the ones I worked with would not want to be armed, we've discussed it around the lunch table on numerous occasions (especially, after a school shooting was in the news). The argument I heard most often was "What if I shot at the intruder and hit someone else instead, I'd be ruined - no, its just not worth the risk."

Oh yeah, I can see your logic of arming teachers, but I've known a LOT of teachers and the only ones I'd consider arming would be those out of the military, who have gun-experience, a skill for using it. That would be me, and me and my kind are in the minority among teachers. I would have had no problem carrying concealed, but I wouldn't want to walk around the class room with a gun on my hip.

However, in my 30 year career, I have never been in a situation where I needed to be armed. But then again, like many have said before me, if you have it and don't need it, that's good, but if you need it and don't have it - that's real bad.

Hack

 

[Picard]

Seems slightly anti except for the last paragraph.

 

[siglite]

If [strike]teacher[/strike] civilians could have guns, ....

I was on another forum and I read a signature that said, "If [strike]teacher[/strike] civilians could have guns, how many innocent kids
would be alive today?"

On that forum I responded to the signature with my .02 cents worth. Here's what I said. What are your thoughts?


I just retired after teaching high school science classes, in a puble school, here in Columbus Ga, for 30
years. I don't think most [strike]teacher[/strike] civilians are equipped to handle a gun in a situation like I think you're talking
about. We have been trained to teach, and that's a full time endeavor, in itself. In fact, I know that most of
the ones I worked with would not want to be armed, we've discussed it around the lunch table on numerous
occasions (especially, after a school shooting was in the news). The argument I heard most often was "What if I
shot at the intruder and hit someone else instead, I'd be ruined - no, its just not worth the risk."

Oh yeah, I can see your logic of arming [strike]teacher[/strike] civilians , but I've known a LOT of [strike]teacher[/strike] civilians and the only ones I'd
consider arming would be those out of the military, who have gun-experience, a skill for using it. That would
be me, and me and my kind are in the minority among [strike]teacher[/strike] civilians . I would have had no problem carrying concealed,
but I wouldn't want to walk around the class room with a gun on my hip.

However, in my 30 year career, I have never been in a situation where I needed to be armed. But then again,
like many have said before me, if you have it and don't need it, that's good, but if you need it and don't have
it - that's real bad.

 

[rainbowbob]

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting that teachers (or any other citizen) should be required to be armed. The contention is that one or two in a school that were armed might make a difference if the fertilizer contacts the portable cooling apparatus.

 

[Vermont]

As siglite points out the same arguments could be made of all civilians, not just teachers, and yet we find that the law abiding citizens who choose to carry guns almost always take it upon themselves to get at least some training and practice, frequently more than the average police officer. I think that this trend would apply to the population of teachers too.

If you have the gun, you have the option of defending yourself against a school shooter. You also have the option of not shooting at the shooter if the shot is too risky. If no one has a gun but the shooter, you don't have that choice.

It should be a personal choice of the teacher. If they didn't think it was worth the risk of hitting a bystander, they would not have to carry a gun.

 

[shdwfx]

Civilians should have the same liberties inside their classroom as they do outside it.

The issue is, no matter how willing or trained, teachers are not permitted to be armed on the job. That should change.

A system to properly train and arm (even deputize) volunteer teachers would go a long way towards ensuring the safety of our students. It could also lessen the strain on local law enforcement in inner city schools.

 

[Superlite27]

I know that most of the ones I worked with would not want to be armed

Most.....does this mean "not all"? So since "most" wouldn't want to, you're in favor of a complete ban? Including the few that DO feel skilled and proficient enough?

As rainbowbob intelligently points out, I don't see a law requiring teachers to carry. I see a provision where those who do feel comfortable protecting their own life (instead of requiring another human being to take responsibility for it) would be allowed to do so if they wish.

 

[TallPine]

What if I shot at the intruder and hit someone else instead

Yes, because that would be so much worse than the BG killing another dozen or two kids ...

Maybe we should require teachers to be armed - that would weed out all the idiots.

 

[SeanSw]

Teachers are only trained to teach? Well then, lets make sure everyone only does exactly what they were trained to do, and we'll all be fine. There will be no bad teachers, there will be no bad shootings, and we won't have teachers molesting children. Teachers weren't trained to do that so it is an impossibility.

I agree that it is absurd to make teachers carrying firearms a law, but it is no less absurd to prohibit those who wish to carry. Too many people are willing to surrender their rights when walking through those classroom doors, and teachers give up more than their right to bear arms just by becoming teachers. Why don't more of them protest their fingerprinting?

 

[Henry Bowman]

As rainbowbod said, the debate has never been about srming teachers, it has been about not disarming them. There is a huge difference, though some cannot see it.

 

[Darthbauer]

If teachers could have guns, ....

I think more students would be shot. When I was in HS kids were harsh. One of my classes made the teacher cry they were so mean to her. I think that if she a gun at the time someone would have been shot. But thats just my .2 cents.

 

[Hokkmike]

Oh yeah, I can see your logic of arming teachers, but I've known a LOT of teachers and the only ones I'd consider arming would be those out of the military, who have gun-experience, a skill for using it. That would be me, and me and my kind are in the minority among teachers.

Familiar tune. Arm me but not those other guys. Anybody who is willing can be trained to safely use a firearm. there should be no exclusivety for ex-military or ex-police.

Many schools do have armed security.

In the HS where I teach about 33% of the faculty would be good candidates to carry a weapon. Not all would be willing. Some of them have served, more have not. Drop the double standard.

 

[jkingrph]

Oh yeah, I can see your logic of arming teachers, but I've known a LOT of teachers and the only ones I'd consider arming would be those out of the military, who have gun-experience, a skill for using it. That would be me, and me and my kind are in the minority among teachers. I would have had no problem carrying concealed, but I wouldn't want to walk around the class room with a gun on my hip.

How would you determine who among those in military would meet your requirement. Most people in the military only have limited training with firearms.

In Air Force basicI "qualified" with the m-16. In OTS I qualified with 38 revolver, and in ten years of comissioned service never touched a military firearm again. I did own a long barrelled version of the 38 the AF used so was very proficent with it, on my own nickle of course. Fast forward ten years, I got back in the active reserve and had to qualify with 9mm. At that point I had a single action 9mm and a couple of 1911's so no real problem there., and we did had to qualify annually.

I think a better criteria would be for a teacher to accept the responsibility and get the training to shoot in defensive situations, and then practice. It would require a commintment of time and money on hisor her part.

My point is not to count on the fact that someone who has been in the military is qualified, most often they are not, myself included based on training in the military firearms.

 

[c1ogden]

Since arming the teachers, parents, aides, and other school staff decades ago, Israel has never had a school shooting that I've heard of!

 

[Big45]

What do you mean "if"

I am a teacher.

I live in Rhode Island.

Rhode Island ccw is good in schools.

I carry everyday.

What do you mean if?

 

[rainbowbob]

I think more students would be shot. When I was in HS kids were harsh. One of my classes made the teacher cry they were so mean to her. I think that if she a had gun at the time someone would have been shot.

That is kind of silly. That assumes that schools are hiring mentally unstable teachers - and those unstable teachers are the same ones that would be armed just waiting for a chance to plug a student that was "mean".

 

[TAB]

I'm ok with allowing teachers to carry on thier person, I am not ok with them locking it into thier desk.

 

[CZ 42]

At my school we've had two lockdowns THIS YEAR. The only person armed (until the other cops show up to direct traffic around us) is the School Resource Officer. The first was a carjacker running around with a shottie, but the second was just a girl carrying an oriental fan like a mossy 500 persuader under her trenchcoat. Both times they herded us into the media center, which would make a fine shooting gallery, and NOT A SINGLE HANDGUN was present. I talk to my teachers about my hobby, and I know many are proficient gun handlers - I know there couldv'e been a ruger, glock, beretta, and maybe even an AK (form an art teacher with a WOLF performance ammunition bumper sticker) in attendance. If I had to sign a waiver stating that I didn't mind to be shot if I was behind a school shooter, I would. And I'd write at the bottom, "2 in the chest and 1 in the head!" Honestly, school shooters in general aren't good marksmen, I'd be happier if we even had trained and armed monkeys to let out of cages when the SHTF. What good is an SRO? They're the first to go - all they really do is provide another gun and couple reloads for their killer.

 

[Harley Quinn]

What do you mean "if"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a teacher.

I live in Rhode Island.

Rhode Island ccw is good in schools.

I carry everyday.

What do you mean if?

Are you serious? You take a gun on to campus and other teachers know it?

 

[Big45]

Are you serious? You take a gun on to campus and other teachers know it?

Yes, I am serious. No, noone else knows about it. Hence the term "concealed".

 

[Harley Quinn]

Yes, I am serious. No, noone else knows about it. Hence the term "concealed".

What do you think will happen if they find out

 

[Joe Cool]

And what if "Pilots" could have guns - how would 9/11 have turned out?
If just one of the pilots on those planes had a gun, would the terrorists have succeeded in killing as many people? I like to think not. You don't have to search far to find families who have lost members or friends that day, nor those who have lost in the war in Iraq since or possibly in Virginia Tech or Columbine, etc. I only need to look down the block to see a widow and children without a father.

And now Pilots can carry, and several do carry in the cockpits. In truth it's only a slight deterrent because criminals know that most likely there is no air marshall on their particular flight. And they know exactly where the pilots are located. The real security is in knowing that no pilot will EVER open a door to the cockpit if people are threatened, and that there are randomly seeded, armed marshals on some flights.

It's a God-given right to self defense, and nobody should be sitting in judgment of which law-abiding citizens can carry and where and when, excepting criminals. That keeps the criminals and predators wary. Gun free zones like schools only do one thing - make a target rich environment for armed criminals. You cannot legislate away illegal or predatory behavior in society nor on school grounds either. It's not an accident that in Iraq four US school district building plans were found on an enemy's computer. Try watching Glen Beck's Perfect Day series on CNN if you want to consider what-if scenarios. Then think whether or not teachers should carry.

I trust our teachers to shape a good portion of my children's minds, and I would trust those teachers who choose to carry with the thought of protecting them from harm too. Yes there's the risk of accidental discharges or missing an intruder, but they are lower in risk of having dozens or perhaps hundreds killed. The logic of odds and probabilities cannot be ignored here. Lock-downs are not the answer to armed intruders, as they do almost nothing but make children sitting ducks in the event of an intruder in a school.

If I had the opportunity in NJ, I would carry concealed daily, and take the responsibility for my actions. I would expect any teachers that choose to carry to have the same perspective.

 

[Big45]

What do you think will happen if the find out

I would more than likely be fired. I'm glad Kel-tec makes 'em so small

 

[mio]

teachers should have the option just like the rest of us.

 

[FLoppyTOE]

"If teachers could have guns, how many innocent kids would be alive today?"

"Could" being the key word.

The rebutle bteft was trying to make to this quote, wasn't a rebutle at all. He simply dragged it out into a couple of detailed paragraphs. I don't know if thats what he was intending to do or not. He goes on to explain that most wouldn't carry, but some would.

That quote obviously references the few that would. Right now these individuals CAN'T, but if they COULD, how many lives may have been saved, or will be saved?