AZTOY
Member
If the SHTF gun and ammo will be available, but you will need to clean the red stuff off them.
If the SHTF, what do you need- more guns or more ammo?
- Thread starter 2dogs
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Seeker
Member
Doesn't gasoline go 'flat' after a relativly short period of time?
The guns and ammo are probably a lot more fun to acquire (at least for me), but, realistically, once you've performed some minimum "due diligence" in those areas the other stuff becomes a whole lot more important if you're really worried about a survival situation.
You need shelter. Hopefully you can stay at home. If you're in an inner-city high-rise, that may not be a good option. Where are you going to go? Do you at least have a good tent? Or do you just plan to shoot some remote farmer and take over his house; if that's your plan I hope he gets you first. I'm serious about this. If you have to leave home, there will probably be, depending where you live, tens or hundreds of thousands of people doing the same thing, all of whom will run out of gas within a 200 mile radius, depending how full their gas tank is. How full is your tank? Got any extra gas tanks in the garage? Where are you going to go, and how are you going to get there? And if you live in Bigtown USA, where there's a smallpox breakout, you'd better not expect those friendly folks in Smallville USA to welcome you with open arms. You'll probably be on your own, at least for a while.
Real soon, you'll need water. Hopefully, you've got at least a few days worth in the basement. Once that's gone, your PUR Hiker is only going to cut if for about 100 gallons, and your little bottle of iodine treatment might add about 4 gallons. My suggestion is the Katadyn Gravityn [sp?], which is good for 30,000 gallons, plus a replacement filter or two. Costs around $250, without the extra filter, but that's going to be more important than having your third AR.
If it gets cold where you live (e.g., it's about -2 degrees outside here now), you need heat. Do you have a wood burning stove? How much wood? Chainsaw? Fuel? Extra chains? And do you have good sleeping bags, and I'm not talking about the Coleman 40-degree bags at Wal-Mart.
Gees, we haven't even talked about food yet. MREs are fine for a few days, but otherwise they're way too expensive for most of us. You need bulk quantities of staples: flour, salt, sugar, baking powder and soda, rice, oils and fats, wheat, beans, etc. Stock up on some multi-vitamins. And if you make it through the first year, what will you do in Year 2? You need seeds for vegetables; start a garden, there are freeze-dried vegetable seeds all over the Web. Also, you'll want some fishing gear to help supplement the diet, and maybe some traps or snares, and the knowledge to use them.
Sooner or later, someone you care about will get sick. It would sure be nice to have some broad-spectrum antibiotics. Actually, you can pick them up at farming/animal supply houses (I'm not a doctor, I'm not representing anything, but I understand that some of them, like Tetracycline, are chemically identical to the human versions), but they're no good if you don't know how to use them. Do some research, find out what works, buy some stuff, and print the dosages on the container (so if you're dead someone else can figure out what to do). Plus, you may require special medications. If that's the case, explain your concerns to your doctor and try to get a three-month stash. Hopefully, things will blow over by then. In addition, you'll want to have a first-class first aid kit, which is a subject in-and-of itself.
You will want light. The MagLite will not cut it, at least after a couple of hours. I suggest LED lights because they last so much longer; the LEDs last virtually forever, and battery lives are extended by a factor of 10 or 20. Some rechargeable batteries and a small solar battery charger would probably do the trick.
Sanitation will be critical. How are you set for soap? Do you know how to make soap from ashes and animal fat? How much bleach do you have (you can more-or-less purify water with 8 drops of bleach per gallon; double the dosage if the water is cloudy)? Toilet paper, toothbrushes, toothpaste, etc.?
You'll want a radio (the more bands the better) to find out what's going on, and batteries to keep it going. Baygen Freeplay (the name may have changed) makes a very good one that can be powered by a hand crank or solar energy.
Since you want to maintain a will to survive, some "fun stuff' is essential. Simple games (checkers, chess, cards, a frisbee, whatever) and some treats like hard candies.
Sewing stuff.
A couple of survival books. Books that will tell you what plants you can eat, how long to boil water to sterilize it (5 minutes should probably do), how to preserve preserve (salt or smoke or dry) the food you obtain, medications used by native americans, etc.
Set aside some cash, nothing bigger than $20's. As much as you can comfortably afford. Some gold or silver coins would also be a good idea. Many people recommend taking copies of your important documents, too.
Miscellaneous stuff like a compass, tools, knives, multitools, fire starting gear, rain gear, maps, shovels, etc., etc.
When all is said and done, the most important thing is your brain. What do you know how to do, and what has your family learned how to do.
Gees, I just went back and read this, and I can't imagine why I was inspired to write such a long and marginally off-topic response. I guess it's just the fact that instead of spending $600 on yet-one-more gun (or ammo), there are a whole lot more practical and helpful things we can do to protect our families in case of a SHTF scenario. Sorry for the diversion.
You need shelter. Hopefully you can stay at home. If you're in an inner-city high-rise, that may not be a good option. Where are you going to go? Do you at least have a good tent? Or do you just plan to shoot some remote farmer and take over his house; if that's your plan I hope he gets you first. I'm serious about this. If you have to leave home, there will probably be, depending where you live, tens or hundreds of thousands of people doing the same thing, all of whom will run out of gas within a 200 mile radius, depending how full their gas tank is. How full is your tank? Got any extra gas tanks in the garage? Where are you going to go, and how are you going to get there? And if you live in Bigtown USA, where there's a smallpox breakout, you'd better not expect those friendly folks in Smallville USA to welcome you with open arms. You'll probably be on your own, at least for a while.
Real soon, you'll need water. Hopefully, you've got at least a few days worth in the basement. Once that's gone, your PUR Hiker is only going to cut if for about 100 gallons, and your little bottle of iodine treatment might add about 4 gallons. My suggestion is the Katadyn Gravityn [sp?], which is good for 30,000 gallons, plus a replacement filter or two. Costs around $250, without the extra filter, but that's going to be more important than having your third AR.
If it gets cold where you live (e.g., it's about -2 degrees outside here now), you need heat. Do you have a wood burning stove? How much wood? Chainsaw? Fuel? Extra chains? And do you have good sleeping bags, and I'm not talking about the Coleman 40-degree bags at Wal-Mart.
Gees, we haven't even talked about food yet. MREs are fine for a few days, but otherwise they're way too expensive for most of us. You need bulk quantities of staples: flour, salt, sugar, baking powder and soda, rice, oils and fats, wheat, beans, etc. Stock up on some multi-vitamins. And if you make it through the first year, what will you do in Year 2? You need seeds for vegetables; start a garden, there are freeze-dried vegetable seeds all over the Web. Also, you'll want some fishing gear to help supplement the diet, and maybe some traps or snares, and the knowledge to use them.
Sooner or later, someone you care about will get sick. It would sure be nice to have some broad-spectrum antibiotics. Actually, you can pick them up at farming/animal supply houses (I'm not a doctor, I'm not representing anything, but I understand that some of them, like Tetracycline, are chemically identical to the human versions), but they're no good if you don't know how to use them. Do some research, find out what works, buy some stuff, and print the dosages on the container (so if you're dead someone else can figure out what to do). Plus, you may require special medications. If that's the case, explain your concerns to your doctor and try to get a three-month stash. Hopefully, things will blow over by then. In addition, you'll want to have a first-class first aid kit, which is a subject in-and-of itself.
You will want light. The MagLite will not cut it, at least after a couple of hours. I suggest LED lights because they last so much longer; the LEDs last virtually forever, and battery lives are extended by a factor of 10 or 20. Some rechargeable batteries and a small solar battery charger would probably do the trick.
Sanitation will be critical. How are you set for soap? Do you know how to make soap from ashes and animal fat? How much bleach do you have (you can more-or-less purify water with 8 drops of bleach per gallon; double the dosage if the water is cloudy)? Toilet paper, toothbrushes, toothpaste, etc.?
You'll want a radio (the more bands the better) to find out what's going on, and batteries to keep it going. Baygen Freeplay (the name may have changed) makes a very good one that can be powered by a hand crank or solar energy.
Since you want to maintain a will to survive, some "fun stuff' is essential. Simple games (checkers, chess, cards, a frisbee, whatever) and some treats like hard candies.
Sewing stuff.
A couple of survival books. Books that will tell you what plants you can eat, how long to boil water to sterilize it (5 minutes should probably do), how to preserve preserve (salt or smoke or dry) the food you obtain, medications used by native americans, etc.
Set aside some cash, nothing bigger than $20's. As much as you can comfortably afford. Some gold or silver coins would also be a good idea. Many people recommend taking copies of your important documents, too.
Miscellaneous stuff like a compass, tools, knives, multitools, fire starting gear, rain gear, maps, shovels, etc., etc.
When all is said and done, the most important thing is your brain. What do you know how to do, and what has your family learned how to do.
Gees, I just went back and read this, and I can't imagine why I was inspired to write such a long and marginally off-topic response. I guess it's just the fact that instead of spending $600 on yet-one-more gun (or ammo), there are a whole lot more practical and helpful things we can do to protect our families in case of a SHTF scenario. Sorry for the diversion.
sixgun_symphony
member
2dogs,
Get yourself an M1 Rifle and a case of milsurp .30 caliber ammunition.
Civilian Marksmanship Program
I also recommend that you get into reloading for cost savings on ammunition. LEE is about the most affordable equipment for handloading.
LEE ANNIVERSARY KIT
Get yourself an M1 Rifle and a case of milsurp .30 caliber ammunition.
Civilian Marksmanship Program
I also recommend that you get into reloading for cost savings on ammunition. LEE is about the most affordable equipment for handloading.
LEE ANNIVERSARY KIT
larry_minn
Member
Some good stuff here. If it looks like SHTF I plan to preposition some stuff at a second location. I am at my planned location right now.
If SHTF is say Smallpox scare and power grid falls tonight I would be fine but would have to abandon my home to get family. IF phones are still working and travel allowed would attempt to call family to my location. "city folk"
As just checked and it is 9 BELOW plus wind chill I can have heat for 3 days without any extra work. My tractor froze a fuel line the other day and is sitting outside so no 15kw generator. BUT I do have a 5000 watt coleman and over 100 gal of gas. So that is plan B.
As to question ammo will do you more good then guns until/unless you have more able bodied shooters then guns. Heck I bought a Mark IV Enfield that would be great for non shooter. Was less then $85 and 16guage shotgun was given to me. (break open) Very simple and straitforward.
IF SHTF I feel the current ATF rules are suspended. So barrels of that cheap shotgun would be trimmed. "It is rather LONG"
Edit to add
I live where (type of area) most folks will be going to. BUT if left alone and have family here I could be self sufficiant till late fall without too much bother. I.E. nothing in but natural air/water.
I have two water sources and two power sources plus inverter. While I am low on wood I do have access to trees and equipement to move with man power. I only have TP enough to last 2 months. (waiting for a good sale again) That is normal supplies where I live. (Plus when wife got transfered to FL all her household stuff got left with me)
Only other item I think I am short of is Bleach, meds (two month only) battereis (short of 9V for smoke/carbon dioxide/FRS)
Anyone want to offer me half a million dollars (US) that myself and wife couldn't live on my property for 10 months without bringing in one thing as far as food/clothing/shelter/water/fuel but of course not counting medical aid for injuries. Let me know.
If SHTF is say Smallpox scare and power grid falls tonight I would be fine but would have to abandon my home to get family. IF phones are still working and travel allowed would attempt to call family to my location. "city folk"
As just checked and it is 9 BELOW plus wind chill I can have heat for 3 days without any extra work. My tractor froze a fuel line the other day and is sitting outside so no 15kw generator. BUT I do have a 5000 watt coleman and over 100 gal of gas. So that is plan B.
As to question ammo will do you more good then guns until/unless you have more able bodied shooters then guns. Heck I bought a Mark IV Enfield that would be great for non shooter. Was less then $85 and 16guage shotgun was given to me. (break open) Very simple and straitforward.
IF SHTF I feel the current ATF rules are suspended. So barrels of that cheap shotgun would be trimmed. "It is rather LONG"
Edit to add
I live where (type of area) most folks will be going to. BUT if left alone and have family here I could be self sufficiant till late fall without too much bother. I.E. nothing in but natural air/water.
I have two water sources and two power sources plus inverter. While I am low on wood I do have access to trees and equipement to move with man power. I only have TP enough to last 2 months. (waiting for a good sale again) That is normal supplies where I live. (Plus when wife got transfered to FL all her household stuff got left with me)
Only other item I think I am short of is Bleach, meds (two month only) battereis (short of 9V for smoke/carbon dioxide/FRS)
Anyone want to offer me half a million dollars (US) that myself and wife couldn't live on my property for 10 months without bringing in one thing as far as food/clothing/shelter/water/fuel but of course not counting medical aid for injuries. Let me know.
twoblink
Member
You need to call friends over and tell them to bring over more guns AND ammo!!
Or go to Tamara's house..
Or go to Tamara's house..
Kahr carrier
Member
AMMO-FOOD-MONEY.
Bob Locke
Member
more ammo = more practice = better accuracy =
you can get WHATEVER ELSE YOU NEED in a time of upheaval
you can get WHATEVER ELSE YOU NEED in a time of upheaval
Joe Demko
Member
An excellent question. In order to best answer it, you have to assess the threat in your area.
1. Are you in spikey-haired mutant country or plague zombie country?
2. Are your neighbors tools of the conspiracy who have already had the cellular architecture of their brains altered by cell phone powered nanobots?
3. Is the NEA monitoring your phone?
4. Do you have adequate stores of cider vinegar?
5. Do you have a dune buggy with a harpoon launcher on the back?
6. Are you aware of the sinister significance of pancakes?
7. Do you envision your defense as a "last 15 minutes of The Road Warrior" battle or more of a "last 15 minutes of Zulu" battle?
8. Do you have enough scarves, headbands, and OD football pads for everyone in your party?
See, there is more to this than just the guns or ammo question.
1. Are you in spikey-haired mutant country or plague zombie country?
2. Are your neighbors tools of the conspiracy who have already had the cellular architecture of their brains altered by cell phone powered nanobots?
3. Is the NEA monitoring your phone?
4. Do you have adequate stores of cider vinegar?
5. Do you have a dune buggy with a harpoon launcher on the back?
6. Are you aware of the sinister significance of pancakes?
7. Do you envision your defense as a "last 15 minutes of The Road Warrior" battle or more of a "last 15 minutes of Zulu" battle?
8. Do you have enough scarves, headbands, and OD football pads for everyone in your party?
See, there is more to this than just the guns or ammo question.
Jack19
Member
Along with everyone else, 1. common sense, 2. a good rifle, 3. survival skills and equipment. (see above posts for suggestions)
Your shotgun may take care of your 50 to 100 yard targets, providing you do your part, but it just doesn't reach far enough. Someone with an AR or a heavier caliber semi, or bolt gun, is going to far outrange you. Doom on you.
Get a rifle.
Your shotgun may take care of your 50 to 100 yard targets, providing you do your part, but it just doesn't reach far enough. Someone with an AR or a heavier caliber semi, or bolt gun, is going to far outrange you. Doom on you.
Get a rifle.
Move to the house in between Tamara & "Runt"
Actually, as I see it, you are better off with a few guns and a whole lot of ammo for each, than 20 or 30 guns and 10 rounds for each.
I have many gallons of "bottled water" on hand, along with some food staples...peanut butter, crackers, canned soup & ham, etc. Plus at least 300 rounds for each caliber, except my shotgun...gotta get more buckshot, and some slugs.
Also have a full-size LP Gas grill, with 2 20-lb bottles, and one of those "grill-2-go" units, with about 20 of those 1-lb fuel cannisters.
Actually, as I see it, you are better off with a few guns and a whole lot of ammo for each, than 20 or 30 guns and 10 rounds for each.
I have many gallons of "bottled water" on hand, along with some food staples...peanut butter, crackers, canned soup & ham, etc. Plus at least 300 rounds for each caliber, except my shotgun...gotta get more buckshot, and some slugs.
Also have a full-size LP Gas grill, with 2 20-lb bottles, and one of those "grill-2-go" units, with about 20 of those 1-lb fuel cannisters.
Chris Rhines
Member
If the SHTF, you need more mobility, communications equipment, food, water, and medical supplies, and the knowledge and skill to use all of the above. Guns and ammo are way down on the list.
- Chris
- Chris
I've yet to hear anyone mention "whiskey" as a stock up item.
It can disinfect wounds, sterilize utensils, disinfect water, serve as a pain killer, will be a big in-demand item that can be bartered for other things, and a little bit goes a long way (well sometimes).
It can disinfect wounds, sterilize utensils, disinfect water, serve as a pain killer, will be a big in-demand item that can be bartered for other things, and a little bit goes a long way (well sometimes).
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